5 replies to this topic

[Morgenstern]

So I was on this article:http://www.truetorahjews.org/maharal

It says that the Midrash had a different text of Tehllim 25:1. Its not a keri-ketiv, but it actually says the written text is one word different from the text of 25:1 that we have today.

I have MAJOR problem with this. I thought that the all the words of the neviim that we have today are exactly as they were originally transcribed. But now Chazal is telling me the written text is one way, when our version isn't that. Can someone PLEASE explain this to me. I don't think I can just accept "Oh well the Midrash had a different version of the text" because that simply doesn't make sense in the context of the words of the neviim have been preserved in their authenticity.

I need an explanation.

[taon]

I looked up the midrash, and it does have the same text we have.

 

הוא שאמר דוד (שם תהלים כ״ה) אליך ה׳ נפשי אשא, אשיא כתיב, שהיו משיאין נפשם על קדושת שמו של הקב״ה

 

looks like a kri-ksiv, or a pronunciation change

[torah613]

Maybe this will also help, from the old site:

 

http://classic.frumt...o the Torah&M=0

 

Achiezer Posted - 04 December 2001 19:14

Also (and this next question was included in the other post, which I put up afterward when I had more time to write it) this still doesnt explain how we have differences between Sifrei Torah. How can we say that we have letter-for-letter what Moshe had, when there are differences between not only Ashkenazi, Sefardi, and Teimani Sifrei Torah, but even between the Gemora, and Rashi, and ours? The things I quoted were Gilion HaShas to Shabbos 55b, Tosafos there DH "Maavirin," and Rashi to Bereishis 26:5...but there are others...

MODERATOR Posted - 04 December 2001 20:34

All those differences are in Ksiv-Kri, or malei or chaser, etc,. which is a matter of Torah shebaal peh, or Halachah l'moshe misinai. There are numeorus disagreements about such things throughout Halachah.

But all this pertains to the Halachos of HOW to write the Torah, not what the Torah means to say.

What exactly is the problem with the Tzafnas Paneach? Please explain.

[taon]

There is a one letter difference between ashknaz and sefard. There are  minor differences with yemenite sifrei torah, leading to a machlokes if they are kosher to use. of the three sifrei torah you mention, one weas a one word change same as the targum made for talmai, one had an extra hey, and one spelled hi with a yud instead of a vuv. Any variations in sifrei Torah were minor spelling ones.

[Morgenstern]

Since starting this thread, I found out that Rav Akiva Eiger ztl brought down in his kuntres to Masechet Shabbat the differences between the Sifrei Torah we use today and the ones Rashi must have used. So theres no problem with having different versions of Tanach.

When we say the Torah is the same one given to Moshe Rabeinu by G-d, we are talking about the mitzvot themselves.

[taon]

We are talkign about the Torah itself. The only differences in rashi i know of are maley chaser and a backwards nun. Again, the only differences in sifrei torah are such minor things