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Hashem has no emotions


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#1 Rabbi Shapiro

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Posted 06 March 2011 - 10:13 AM

Wait. Are you saying that when it says Hashem is merciful it doesn’t mean that literally? If that’s true, then what do we mean when we say Hashem is Rachum? And what about Hashem’s love for us? Isn’t that meant literally?

G-d has no emotions. Zero. Nada. G-d is totally Simple. An emotional reaction - love, hate, loneliness, excitement - would mean, chas v’sholom, that…

  • He changes,
  • He is affected by stimuli (whatever it is that caused the emotion in G-d obviously affected Him),
  • Things have power over Him (since whatever it was that caused Him to feel the emotion controlled Him by causing the emotion in Him),
  • He has boundaries (since emotions are exclusive of each other, each one has to exist separately from the others, and so some boundaries must exist that ensure that when one emotion is felt the others are not),
  • He is made up of parts (since the emotions are a part, but not all, of Him),
  • He is not the First Cause (anything that is made up of different attributes cannot be the First Cause since the combination of the attributes are its cause)
  • ... and more.
All of this means that believing that Hashem has emotions is avodah zorah, since by saying that you are making Hashem into a finite, composite, and measurable being.

When we say G-d “loves us” it means that G-d caused things to happen in such a way that it feels like He loves us. If someone else would have done that to us, it would be driven by love.

Hashem has no accidental attributes at all, meaning that there’s no such thing as anything being part of Hashem. There is no such thing as “G-d's knowledge”, “G-d's strength”, or “G-d's love” - all of those things would mean that He has components, which is not true.

So when we ask G-d to have mercy on us, compassion, etc, we are asking for him to deal with us in a way that we define as mercy, compassion, etc? (It’s very hard to understand this because we think like humans and G-d can’t be defined in human terms, like you said.) But what I don’t understand is that, when G-d acts with mercy towards us, isn’t He having mercy, so doesn’t that mean He has mercy?

G-d has no mercy in the emotional sense. He does, however, act in such a way that the results are the same as if He would have had mercy.

That’s what we mean when we ask G-d for mercy. We mean He should act in a way that seems merciful to us, although what we think of as human mercy is not His motivation.

When we say Hashem has “mercy” for instance, we do not mean that Hashem chas v’sholom has an emotion. We mean that Hashem at times acts in such a way that it feels to us as if He was merciful.

It's like, for instance, when you put the wrong software in your computer and it acts up. You may say, as a figure of speech, that the “computer doesn’t like the software” or even “the computer got angry”. The computer doesn’t really have any emotions or likes, but it acted in a way that metaphorically can be described as “anger”.

So too, when we say Hashem gets “angry” we mean that Hashem acts in a way that seems to us angry. But there was no emotion of anger involved.

So if we had a real Loshon Hakodesh dictionary there would be an entry like this:

an•ger n. - Hashem's actions toward us that seem as if He would have a strong feeling of displeasure or hostility.

“Anger”, when it refers to Hashem, is only a figure of speech.

So if our actions can’t be compared to Hashem’s at all, how can the Torah say that our Midos should emulates G-d’s – ma hu rachum, af ata rachum? If all these Midos in regard to Hashem are only a Moshol, then how can we “emulate” Hashem by us having real Midos?

You are asking that if our midos have nothing to do with Hashem's, and are merely homonyms, then how can we ever “resemble” Hashem in our Midos?

The answer is that when we say Hashem is “strong” it means He does not need strength because even without the attribute of strength He is never weak; when we say He is wise it means He does not need the thing we call wisdom because He is never ignorant, even without it; when we say Hashem is merciful it means that He does not need the emotion of mercy - even without it, He is not cruel. It is Hashem's perfection that causes Him not to have any of these traits; He is so perfect that He does not need any of them. Traits such as wisdom, mercy, and the like are only positive things if you need them. We do. Hashem does not.

So when we are commanded to be like Hashem, we are expected to use those traits that Hashem does not need, in order to mimic the actions that Hashem performs without them.
If fact, if you examine the way the Rambam quotes the Halachah of ma-hu-af-ata, you will see this idea explicitly. The exact wording of the Rambam is:

מה הוא נקרא רחום אף אתה היה רחום

In other words, Hashem is merely “called” merciful, but we are commanded to actually be merciful.

One more thing: if G-d doesn't experience emotion, then He must either be incapable of emotion or chose not to experience it. Surely G-d would choose to love His own people if it were a possibility, so then, is He incapable of love?
If so, wouldn't that be placing boundaries on a limitless G-d? And either way, what is the purpose of davening and fulfilling all sorts of requirements if not to please G-d?


G-d is incapable of emotion since He is incapable of change, since He is beyond time, and to change means to be a “victim” of time; and He cannot have emotions for various other reasons - it would contradict His simplicity and His perfection.

And no, this is not a limitation to G-d. Thinking so is just a trick of the mind. You ask: “If G-d is perfect, then can He make Himself imperfect? No?... Aha! The He can’t do everything!”

G-d cannot scratch His nose; He cannot kill Himself; He cannot be weak. No, no, no. The answer is a simple “No”. And no, it’s not a limitation to be always limitless and it’s not a weakness if you can’t be weak.

So let me get this straight....everything that's said about "G-d's love" isn't literal at all?
So G-d's feelings about us are totally neutral, or don't really exist? Sorry, it’s just kind of a weird realization to think that...but if G-d didn't really "love" us, and if He doesn't "need" or "want" anything, then what would be His motivation to create the world?


Right. G-d's “love” isn’t literal. Neither is His anger, or any other emotion. (But it's not that "G-d's feelings are totally neutral." It's that the whole concept of physical, subconscious, unconscious, brain-released-chemical-induced emotional changes.)

And your question that if G-d has no emotions and does not “love” us, then why did G-d make the world, is a wonderful one. By asking it you have uncovered one of the greatest teachings of Creation:
G-d created the world for our benefit, with nothing for Him to gain at all.

That is the difference between “generosity” as it applies to us and “generosity” as it applies to Hashem. For us, there is always a reason why we want to be generous. We always have something to gain - a mitzvah, a feeling of satisfaction, a little recognition, whatever. For Hashem, there was none of this.

He wanted to create us and give us Gan Eden - eternal, infinite happiness - only for our sake. He gains nothing. He did it because He wanted to. For us. With absolutely zero benefit for Himself.

The topic you brought up – the Purpose of Creation – is an important one indeed, but as you have just discovered, it can only be understood properly after we establish that Hashem’s actions do not have the same “reasons” as our actions. Our actions bring benefit to ourselves. Even “selfless” acts provide a sense of satisfaction and garner us reward for having done a Mitzvah. When Hashem acts, He does not get any benefit at all. He cannot benefit – that would imply a change, and some kind of gain. What is outside of time cannot change, and what is Kulo Poshut cannot “gain” anything at all.

When you say such things like "Hashem is One”, "He just is, He never began nor ever will end,” "Hashem is Kulo Pushut" etc. - do you fully understand what these terms mean or are you just referring us to different places where Hashem is described? Honestly, can we really comprehend what this truly means?

The meanings of these terms are easily understood; but visualizing someone or something with these characteristics is impossible - not only for us but for Moshe Rabbeinu, too. When Moshe asked Hashem “show me your glory”, what he wanted to understand was the essence of Hashem, to which Hashem answered: “No living being can see Me.” This means that as long as we are physical beings, we cannot conceptualize these things.

This is so because the human mind does not generate its own knowledge; rather, it absorbs information from the outside and rearranges it in the mind. So someone, let’s say, who was born blind, can never understand the difference between blue and red. There’s absolutely no way you can explain it to him.

Someone who never experienced infinity cannot imagine what he himself means when he says “space never ends”. And neither can he understand what it would mean if he’d say that space does end. Because we have experienced neither infinity nor anything outside of space, we cannot conceptualize those thoughts. Yet the infiniteness of space - or its having an end - can be understood “on paper,” even if our mind’s eye is not sharp enough to picture it.

So too, the things we know about G-d can definitely be understood “on paper,” but we will not be able to imagine them in our minds.

There is a great difference between “impossible” and “unable to be visualized.” There is no reason to say that a Muchrach HaMetzius is impossible. There is no logic that negates the possibility of such an existence. But just because something is real does not mean we can visualize it. Visualization is possible only if we experienced the reality that we want to visualize. Since we never experienced a Muchrach HaMetzius we cannot visualize it.

However, an infinite regression of causes, for example, is not merely impossible to visualize. It is impossible to exist. Because infinity never ends, the amount of causes in the past cannot be infinite, because those causes have already ended. Logic precludes the existence of an infinite regression of anything in the past. Therefore, when faced with the choice of an infinite regression of causes, which is impossible, or a Muchrach HaMetzius, which is not impossible, we conclude that a Muchrach HaMetzius must have been the First Cause.

#2 achasshoalti

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Posted 06 April 2011 - 04:52 PM

(this probably needs to be a new "topic" but the site is not allowing new topics)

  • How can one truly feel hakaras hatov to Hashem, in light of the fact, that whatever Hashem does for us, requires zero effort on His behalf?
  • A related question is: It would seem that in a certain respect, a human being is more deserving of my hakaras hatov for his chesed towards me, due to the effort, exertion, hefsed etc...involved. is this false?


#3 Rabbi Shapiro

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Posted 07 April 2011 - 07:51 PM

Two things:

One, whenever a human being does something for us, he has some incentive. Be it a Mitzvah, a feeling of satisfaction, the feeling of being a good person, the reputation of being a good person, your appreciation, the fact that you owe him a favor now, or some other incentive, there is always an incentive for his behavior. Hashem, on the other hand, has no incentive whatsoever. He gains nothing by giving anyone anything. He is perfect. He cannot change. Nothing impacts Him. There is no reason He should care whether you exist or don’t exist, or live or die, or gain or lose. No feeling of satisfaction, no self-esteem, no reputational benefit, no material benefit, no Mitzvah – nothing. Hashem’s Chesed is a type of chesed so different from anything we have ever experienced that it is only a homonym when we call both His benevolent acts and those of humans “Chesed.”

Why did Hashem create the world altogether? Only for Chesed– so we can gain. There was no tachlis for Him to do it. There was nothing in it for Him. Nothing at all. He remained exactly the same before and after creation. No difference to Him whatsoever. It is total and complete altruism, the act of creation and its maintenance, performed for no reason other than our benefit.

Humans are supposed to do Chesed, and they gain from it, in so many ways. Now the fact that they gain from it should not diminish our Hakaras HaTov – like when we say Yasher Koach to the Kohanim for their Bracha even though they were obligated to give it to us – if someone does something that you benefit from, you owe him gratitude. But the giver also benefits.Hashem never does. Big difference.

That’s one. Two – we need to understand that even when a human being does a Chesed for us, the main benefactor was Hashem. Who do you think gave the human being the strength, wisdom, eyes, ears, hands and feet to enable him to do the Chesed? The motivation to do it, the Siyata D’Shmaya needed to overcome the Yezter Horah not to do the Chesed? Who generated within the Chesed-doer the feeling of satisfaction and the wisdom to know that doing a Chesed is a good thing? Who gave your benefactor the resources to do you the favor? And who put him in the precisely right place and right time for him to be poised to do it?

All of this is from Hashem. The human, given the countless tools needed to perform the Chesed, merely makes the Bechirah-decision to do it. The rest is from Hashem.

And so, when someone does us a Chesed, yes, we need to be grateful to the doer, and Hakaras HaTov is the greatest Middah in the Torah (see Rashi Shabbos 31a “Lechavercha lo saavid”), but we need to have even more Hakaras Hatov to Hashem for the benevolence bestowed upon us, even when done through a human agent. It is foolhardy and perilous to ignore Hashem’s role in any salvation we experience. All good that we receive comes from Him

#4 emoticon

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Posted 10 April 2011 - 11:38 PM

Isn't so much of בטחון based on the idea that Hashem loves us? In fact, in שער הבטחון, the first of 'the seven factors that would make it possible for one to place his trust...' is "הרחמים וחמלה ואהבה."
So many times when things are tough, it feels so good to just tell yourself, "this is all from Hashem, and He's doing it because He loves me." It helps to feel... loved.
So aren't we loved?

#5 Rabbi Shapiro

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Posted 11 April 2011 - 07:41 PM

But “love” in that context is just a figure of speech. It’s not an emotion where Hashem c”v “feels” something. Such love is a human trait, and it requires physical chemicals of a physical body. Hashem cannot have that kind of love. Instead, it means that Hashem “favors” you. We call it love because Hashem chooses to treat you in a way that feels to you like love, and the reasons someone loves someone – because they recognize in them traits that they admire and appreciate – is the reason Hashem favors you as well. And we should feel as close closer to Hashem as a result of this “love” as we would someone who literally loves and us. But the actual emotional love where one’s heartbeat races and the biochemicals flow? No. Hashem has none of that.

#6 mamash

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 09:20 PM

1) I believe the Raavad in hilchos teshuva says that because the Torah contains physical descriptions of Hashem, if one were to mistakenly take such descriptions as literal he would not fall into the category of minnus. Would the same apply to someone who has mistaken beliefs concerning taking the middos of Hashem literal? Do/can we pasken this opinion of the Raavad l'halacha? I'm just thinking that there are likely an abundance of people, frum people, out there with mistaken or unrefined beliefs about Hashem. Is everyone who lacks the proper understanding of Hashem, "nebach an apikoris?"

2) The Torah I think uses these physical terms and emotional terms as a dibrah Torah c'lashon bnei Adam. Right? If so, why? Why doesn't the Torah speak in a manner which will teach us the correct beliefs about Hashem? At least according to the Rambam, people who learn pshat in psukim incorrectly seem to fall into the category of minnus, why not prevent this tragedy by avoiding the problem altogether?

#7 Rabbi Shapiro

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Posted 17 August 2011 - 07:35 AM

1) I believe the Raavad in hilchos teshuva says that because the Torah contains physical descriptions of Hashem, if one were to mistakenly take such descriptions as literal he would not fall into the category of minnus. Would the same apply to someone who has mistaken beliefs concerning taking the middos of Hashem literal? Do/can we pasken this opinion of the Raavad l'halacha? I'm just thinking that there are likely an abundance of people, frum people, out there with mistaken or unrefined beliefs about Hashem. Is everyone who lacks the proper understanding of Hashem, "nebach an apikoris?"

2) The Torah I think uses these physical terms and emotional terms as a dibrah Torah c'lashon bnei Adam. Right? If so, why? Why doesn't the Torah speak in a manner which will teach us the correct beliefs about Hashem? At least according to the Rambam, people who learn pshat in psukim incorrectly seem to fall into the category of minnus, why not prevent this tragedy by avoiding the problem altogether?


1) The Raavad applies to someone who thinks Hashem has emotions as well. Thinking that Hashem has emotions is the same as thinking He has a nose c"v. But even according to the Raavad, such belief is Apikorsus; it just does not give the believer the status of an Apikores.

2) The anthropomorphisms help us feel Hashem's presence in our lives - they help us relate to Him and enhance our Emunah of שויתי ה' לנגדי תמיד. On one hand we need to relate to Hashem ע"ד משל similar to the way we relate to a father, a king, someone who loves us and controls our destiny. These expressions strengthen this. At the same time, we need to understand intellectually that all of that is just a Moshol and that we have no idea of what Hashem really is.

Also, these expressions are more than just Mesholim. The Shelah writes that every word in Loshon HaKodesh literally refers to a Midah of Hashem. The fact that we use these words to describe physical things are merely borrowing the terms. So for example, "Yad" does not literally mean "hand," but rather a certain method of Hashem's actions. We refer to a physical hand as "Yad" by way of Moshol, since what a hand does is analagous to the particular Midah called "Yad." All Loshon HaKodesh words work that way. (The Divrei Yoel says this is what Rashi means (Shemos 7:5) when he says that Hashem's "Yad" in that Posuk means "Yad mamesh." Rashi is saying that the word Yad there does not mean physical hand and used as an analogy; instead, the word Yad there means the literal Yad - the Midah of Hashem that the word Yad literally means.)

So these expressions - Yad Hashem, Einei Hashem, etc. - they are not just non-literal expressions. Each one means something very specific about Hashem's Middos that are being employed at given times.

As far as the danger that people will take these expressions the wrong way, Rashi asks that question:


רש"י על בראשית פרק א פסוק כו
נעשה אדם - אע"פ שלא סייעוהו ביצירתו ויש מקום למינים לרדות לא נמנע הכתוב מללמד

#8 SmileySimcha123

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 12:14 PM

If Hashem has no emotions, why do we? Aren't we created in His image?

#9 Rabbi Shapiro

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Posted 26 November 2011 - 07:44 PM

If Hashem has no emotions, why do we? Aren't we created in His image?

The same reason why we have a nose even though Hashem doesn't.

Emotions are a physical thing, like noses. Hashem cannot have them, but He created us with them because we need them to fulfill our purpose in this world. Without emotions we would not be able to fulfill the Torah. How can you fulfill ואהבת לרעך כמוך or את שנאיך ה' אשנא without emotions? How can you do Mitzvos with feeling if you have no ability to feel?

Hashem gave us emotions for the same reason He gave us Esrogim. We need them to do our job.

"Tzelem Elokim" and "Demusainu" does not mean we have any physical resemblance to Hashem. It means we have Bechirah to choose right from wrong without any mechanical response due to a prior cause. This is big miracle, as it is a law of logic that every contingent event has a cause. In other words, there has to be a reason that prompted someone to choose choice A over choice B. And Bechirah says a person chooses freely, not because of any cause.

Hashem is the First Cause, the Cause of all Causes and He miraculously gave us a "part" of Him and made it into our Neshamos. This "Tzelem Elokim" enables us to be similar to Hashem in the sense that we can choose on our own to do MItzvos ro Aveiros, and override the rule that all events have a cause that makes them happen.

it also means that we are Baalei Sechel - we can think. That is also included in Tzelem Elokim.

Also, it means that our physical makeup is representative of various Midos of Hashem. Our eyes are representative of Hashem's Hashgacha; our two parts - right and left - are representative of the Midos Yemin and Smoel; our legs, that transport us from place to place is representative of Hashem's Midah of Hod, that transports lihgt into places of darkness. Our physical makeup is patterned after the Midos that Hashem uses to run the world.

And there can be more explanations.

But one explanation that cannot be, is that Hashem has emotions like we do. That is making Hashem physical as much as saying Hashem has a nose like we do.

#10 SmileySimcha123

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 12:29 PM

So, if He has no emotions, why did He wipe out everyone (except for Noach and his family) when the flood came? Wouldn't that be considered displeasure with the people, or maybe even sadness?

#11 Rabbi Shapiro

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 01:07 PM

No. The fact that there was a response does not mean emotions were involved. L'havdil elef havdolos, a computer can be programmed to bring a Mabul to the world if certain conditions are met. It does not mean the computer had an emotional reaction.

Although it would feel that way. And that's what it means when it says Hashem gets "angry" or "disappointed." It means Hashem acted in a way that feels to us as if He is angry or disappointed. But in reality it happens with no emotions.

The nimshal: Reward and punishment is not the result of Hashem's emotional reaction to our deeds. It is the result of Hashem's calculated response to our deeds. He determines, without emotion, what everyone deserves, needs, and what is the perfect thing to happen in response to our Mitzvos and Aveiros based on His plan for the world. Then He acts.

#12 SmileySimcha123

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 04:59 PM

So He doesn't really love us?

#13 taon

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 11:03 PM

Not as we love. Hashem acts in a way we consider love, but is really beyond love. Human love, after all, has a degree of selfishness to it. Hashem does not.

#14 SmileySimcha123

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Posted 28 November 2011 - 04:14 PM

Ohhhhh. I finally get it :D

#15 AYidOnTheWayUp

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 10:59 PM

1. If everything that a person does has a side benefit, what is Lishma, can you please explain Lishma?
2. What sis the meaning of the concept that what we do gives Hashem a Nachas Ruach (Lifanay) , it seems Hashem feels pleasure that He was obeyed?

#16 Rabbi Shapiro

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Posted 15 October 2012 - 06:55 AM

1. Even though people always gain by an act, if that gain is not part of the motive to do the act, it is Lishma. If you were making a Bar Mitzvah for your son, for example, and someone offered you ten dollars to do it, even if you take the money, it was not in the slightest part of the reason you made the Bar Mitzvah. You would have done it with equal enthusiasm with or without the money.It is the love for your son that motivated you.

Same thing with Hashem. The goal of Lishmah is that even though we may gain by doing a Mitzvah, that gain is not the motive. Ahavas Hashem is.

A very high madreigah indeed.

2. And it seems, equally so, that Hashem has a "hand" and gets "angry" if you take these things literally. They are not meant to be taken so. They are only figures of speech. So too Nachas Ruach.

#17 Judah

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 10:32 AM

Is it wrong, then, to tell kids that Hashem loves them?

#18 Rabbi Shapiro

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Posted 28 October 2012 - 10:53 AM

Is it wrong, then, to tell kids that Hashem loves them?

No, it is not wrong. That's the way kids understand things. When they become astute enough to understand what Hashem's "love" is, we will explain it to them then.

#19 Morgenstern

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Posted 17 September 2013 - 01:04 AM

Since G-d doesn't have emotions, then what does it mean when the Torah mentions G-d's ratzon? What about when it says our performance of mitzvot cause Hashem to have Nachat? How is the mashal supposed to be understood?



#20 Rabbi Shapiro

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Posted 18 September 2013 - 07:12 AM

Since G-d doesn't have emotions, then what does it mean when the Torah mentions G-d's ratzon? What about when it says our performance of mitzvot cause Hashem to have Nachat? How is the mashal supposed to be understood?

 

There are two parts to what you are referring to as "Ratzon": One, the fact that you want something to happen; and two, the reason that you want it to happen. When we say "Ratzon" in regard to Hashem, the word means "want" only with regard to the first part. Hashem wants certain things to happen and others not to, but the other part of Ratzon, the motive behind our wanting certain things to happen, does not apply to Hashem. 

 

Whereras our "wants" are always the result of some benefit that we gain if what we want comes to fruition, Hashem "wants" things only because we gain by it, not Him. We call his Ratzon "רצונו הפשוט" which means a Ratzon not because of any underlying need. Hashem's Ratzon is Ratzon without any need to cause that Ratzon. The only reason Hashem ever expresses any "Ratzon" is for the benefit of others; not Him.