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Is there hope for someone that is chayev kares?


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#1 smillingirl

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 01:21 AM

If someone did aveiros that would be considered kares, is it worth them trying to change. Im in a ton of pain. Life is really hard. Is it worth it? Is there a light at the end of the tunnel? Is there hope for someone like me? Is there someone out there to help me? I have no where to turn, no place to go, everyone has given up on me, is there a point in continuing on in my life?

#2 taon

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 05:02 PM

The answer to each of those questions is yes. Want to talk about anything?

#3 Rabbi Shapiro

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Posted 16 November 2011 - 10:53 PM

If someone did aveiros that would be considered kares, is it worth them trying to change. Im in a ton of pain. Life is really hard. Is it worth it? Is there a light at the end of the tunnel? Is there hope for someone like me? Is there someone out there to help me? I have no where to turn, no place to go, everyone has given up on me, is there a point in continuing on in my life?

Taon is right. The answer is Yes.

The Shem MiShmuel writes that the reward for one single Mitzvah is so great that it is worth living a life if all you did is one Mitzvah and nothing else but Aveiros. It is worth going through the punishment of all those Aveiros just to get the reward of one Mitzvah.

But "given up" on you? That's evil. And foolish. I want to reprint for you something that I wrote to a girl named Racheleah many years ago, who wrote of her being in a similar situation as you. I am editing it slightly to address your particular post:


You're not evil. The only evil I see here is the attitude that someone who is constantly struggling with their Yetzer Horah - often losing the battle - is dirt. And I do mean "evil".

Quote: "There is an evil sickness (r'aah choleh) among us that when we speak about our Gedolim we tend to envision them in terms of their final stature. When we speak about the Chofetz Chaim, we marvel at the miracle of his Shemiras Halashon. Yet how many know of all the downfalls, defeats, and retreats that the Chofetz Chaim had in his battle with the Yetzer Horah on his way to reaching that level?" (R. Yitzchok Hutner Z"L, Pachad Yitzchok letter #128) (1)

Rav Hutner continues with a posuk in Mishle: " 'Seven times the Tzadik falls and then gets up'. Fools think that this means the tzadik rises despite his seven falls. Wise men know that the Tzadik gets up BECAUSE of his seven falls.

"'And G-d saw all he created and behold it was very good'. Good - refers to the Yetzer Tov. 'Very good' - refers to the Yetzer Horah." . . .Please don't think of Gedolim who are one with their good impulses. Think rather of the greatness of the gedolim in terms of a terrifying battle with all of their low and dark impulses. . ."

Listen to me Smillingirl - your fights with the Yetzer Horah make you nothing but a human being. Your losses against the Yetzer Horah make you a human being.

The glory that a Malach brings to G-d's Name is not nearly as meaningful to Hashem as the glory brought by you to Hashem - because you have to struggle and the Malach does not. All the Malachim in the world can not bring Hashem the glory that you can, Smillingirl.

Life, the Torah tells us, is a struggle. We win some, we lose some. Maybe even we lose a lot. But we keep on trying. And - listen to this because this is the key - it's the TRYING, not the succeeding - that makes us great. And that only humans can do.

You've heard what all the ignorant people around you have said about you. Now listen to what the Torah has to say about you:

You know the Halachah that saving a life supersedes all Mitzvos: To save a life, we would take non-kosher medicine, break shabbos, and eat chometz on Pesach.

There are 3 exceptions to this: Giluy arayos, avodah zarah and shefichas damim. For the first two, there are special pesukim that tell us they are exceptions. But nowhere does it say that one should be killed rather than kill another.

The Gemora says we don't need a special posuk to tell us that. It's simple logic. If someone demands "Kill your friend or I will kill you", no matter what you choose, someone will live and someone will die. SO who should live and who should die?

Objectively, whoever is more valuable to Hashem is the one who should live. But, says the Gemora "How do you know that your blood is more valuable [to Hashem] than his?" There really is no way of knowing. Thus, since the person being threatened cannot take his friend's life, he must do nothing, come what may.

Now let me explain what this means. If someone were to come to the Chofetz Chaim and demand "Kill Smillingirl or I will kill you", he would have to think "Who is more valuable to Hashem - me or Smillingirl? Who should live?"

Then he concludes:

"I don't know who is more valuable to Hashem - me or her. Therefore, I have to allow myself to die so that Smillingirl can live and fulfill her mission in this world".

Now imagine, had that really happened - had the Chofetz Chaim given his life in order for you to live - imagine the awesome responsibility you would feel to live up to your greatest potential, to fulfill what is obviously your incredibly vital purpose in this world.

Well the only reason that it hasn't happened is because nobody made the Chofetz Chaim such an offer. Or Rav Moshe Feinstein, or Rav Chaim Kenievsky. But the responsibility, the lofty purpose and awesome value of Smillingirl are all still there.

The next time someone tells you that you are dirt, it would do you well to remember that the person doing the name calling would have to let himself die that you may live, because who knows who's worth more.

And this Halachah applies to you, Smillingirl, not when you become perfect, but as you are now. A rebellious teenager struggling and often being vanquished with her personal Yezter Horah.

And I want to tell you something: You're going to be held responsible in Shamayim for your awesome mission in this world, a mission that you can fulfill, despite whatever you've done yesterday.

Here's what the Gemora gives as an example of a very, very, high madreigah: Someone who fears Hashem as much as he fears people. R. Yochanan ben Zakai blessed his great disciples that they should one day reach this level!

Now listen to another Gemora: There are 2 types of thieves. One who steals openly (a "gazlan") and one who steals in secret(a "ganav"). The Gemora says that the one who steals secretly pays more fines, because besides being a thief, he also showed that he was more afraid of people than of G-d (since he hid from people but remained in sight of G-d).

In other words: A common thief is held responsible and pays for not being on the level that R. Yochanan ben Zakai wished on his greatest disciples! Every thief is held responsible not only for being a thief, but for not being the lofty Tzadik that he could be!

Forget what these people tell you, Smillingirl. As a rabbi I'm telling you that the Torah is on your side - not theirs. The Rambam writes that everyone - even a rebellious teenager - can become a Tzadik as great as Moshe Rabeinu. And the Rambam calls those who do not believe it "dummies" (Golems). I am sending you, via private email, a copy of this Rambam with a little note I wrote in the margin. When the Rambam says everyone has the potential to be a Tzadik as great as Moshe Rabbeinu, I added "even Smilingirl". Carry this with you if you like, and when you feel like "dirt", take it out, look at it, and thank Hashem for creating people like the Rambam who understand who Smillingirl really is.

Please keep in touch. The people on these boards care about you. We would all like to share your in your glory, which we all know is sure to come.



__________________________________________________________________________________________________

(1)

Here is a complete translation of R Hunter’s letter quoted earlier to a student lamenting obstacles and slumps....

… A failing many of us suffer from is that when we consider the aspects of perfection of our sages, we focus on the ultimate level of their attainments. We discuss how they are complete in this or that area while omitting mention of the inner struggles that had previously raged within them. A listener would get the impression that these individuals came out of the hand of their Creator in full-blown form.

Everyone is awed at the purity of speech of the Chofetz Chaim Ztl considering it a miraculous phenomenon. But who knows of the battles, struggles and obstacles, the slumps and regressions that the Chofetz Chaim encountered in his war with the yetzer horah? There are many such examples, to which a discerning individual as yourself can certainly apply the rule.

The result of this failing is that when an ambitious young man of spirit and enthusiasm meets obstacles, falls and slumps, he imagines himself as unworthy of being planted in the house of Hashem”. According to this young man’s fancy, flourishing in the house of Hashem means to repose with calm spirit on “lush meadows” beside “tranquil waters” [Tehillim 23] delighting in the yetzer hatov, in the manner of the righteous delighting in the reflection of the Shechina, with crowns on their heads, gathered in Gan Eden. And at the same time, untroubled by the agitation of the yetzer hora, along the lines of the verse “free among the dead” [Tehillim 88:6].

Know, however, my dear friend, that your soul is rooted not in the TRANQUILITY or the yetzer tov, but rather in the BATTLE of the yetzer tov. And your precious, warm-hearted letter “testifies as one hundred witnesses” that you are a worthy warrior in the battalion of the yetzer tov. The English expression “lose a battle and win a war” applies. Certainly, you have stumbled and will stumble again (a self-fulfilling prophecy is not intended) and in many battles you will fall lame. I promise you, though, that after those losing campaigns you will emerge from the war with the laurels of victory upon your head and with the fresh prey quivering between your teeth. Lose battles but win wars.

The wisest of all men has said “A just man falls seven times and rises again” [Mishlei 24:16]. Fools believe the intent of this verse is to teach us something remarkable-the just man has fallen seven times and yet he rises. But the knowledgeable are aware that the essence of the tzaddik’s rising again is by way of his seven falls. “ ‘And He saw all that he had made and behold, it was very good. “Good’: that is the yetzer tov. ‘Very good’: that is the yetzer horah.” [Breishis Rabah 9].

My cherished one, I clasp you to my heart, and whisper in your ear that had your letter reported on your mitzvos and good deeds, I would have said that I had received a good letter from you. As things stand, with your letter telling of slumps and falls and obstacles, I say that I have received a very good letter from you. Your spirit is storming as it aspires to greatness. I beg of you, do not portray for yourself great men as being as one with their yetzer tov. Picture rather their greatness in terms of an awesome war with every base and low inclination.

When you feel the turmoil of the yetzer within yourself, know that with that feeling you resemble great men far more than with the feeling of deep peace, which you desire. In those very areas where you feel yourself falling most frequently –particularly in those areas- do you have the greatest potential for serving as an instrument of distinction for the honor of hashem.
(translation by Eliakim Willner)

.. Btw, that’s only excerpts form the original letter, which is much longer.
...The whole letter is much better. Its in Sefer Pachad Yitzchok, Letters, # 128.

#4 danceInTheRain

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Posted 17 November 2011 - 08:32 AM

you should really try to create some kind of connection with someone who will really cares.maybe the moderaters of this place can help with that.
all i want to say is that no matter how bleak things may look now hashem ALWAYS loves you.
a couple of years back i was in a crazy situation too and it just look like i was lost. i could not see how things could ever change
but now a few years later i cant even believe how good things have become.
of course i had to work to change some stuffs. but hashem helps without any porportion to what we do.
and you CAN do it!!!!
who knows maybe in a few years you will be helping people in this situation. really! Dont laugh!
if it helps anything then just know that i beleive in you. AND SO DOES HASHEM!
and you know what?
somebody like you who struggles i order to be good and falls but then picks himself up, can reach higher heights and is more beloved to hashem, there are many sources for that!

good luck in making the right desicions

#5 Soulrebel

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Posted 10 January 2012 - 11:27 PM

Erm...what if you're not exactly sure if you're chayuv kareis, but you've actively prevented others from doing the same things. Does that get you out of being chayuv kareis, if you were chayuv kareis in the first place?

#6 Rabbi Shapiro

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Posted 14 January 2012 - 10:33 PM

Erm...what if you're not exactly sure if you're chayuv kareis, but you've actively prevented others from doing the same things. Does that get you out of being chayuv kareis, if you were chayuv kareis in the first place?

Helping others out of doing an averiah that you did or may have done is a big zechus but in and of itself would not negate the Kareis. However, you may not need it to.

If you regret what you did that (may have) caused you to get the Kareis and resolve not to do it again, that constitutes Teshuva and you are not Chayev Kareis anymore. Teshuva helps for sins of Kareis also.

So if you regret the sin and resolve not to do it again, you have a totally clean slate. It's as if you never did the sin in the first place.

And helping others not do the aveirah is in any case a tremendous zechus that merits tremendous reward.

#7 AYidOnTheWayUp

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 01:27 PM

"The Shem MiShmuel writes that the reward for one single Mitzvah is so great that it is worth living a life if all you did is one Mitzvah and nothing else but Aveiros. It is worth going through the punishment of all those Aveiros just to get the reward of one Mitzvah."

I would love to see this inside and if you have other sources that say the same idea I would appreciate it.

#8 achasshoalti

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 05:57 PM

Here is the Rav Hutner Letter:

 

[מתוך "פחד יצחק-איגרות ומכתבים"] 

אהובי וחביבי, שלום וברכה! 

מכתבך הגיע לידי, ודבריך הגיעו ללבי. 

דע לך חביבי כי עצם מכתבך מתנגד הוא לכל התיאורים הנמצאים בו. והנני בזה להסביר לך תוכן משפט זה. 


רעה חולה היא אצלנו שכאשר מתעסקים אנו בצדדי השלמות של גדולינו, ההנו מטפלים בסיכום האחרון של מעלתם. מספרים אנו על דרכי השלמות שלהם, בשעה שאנחנו מדלגים על המאבק הפנימי שהתחולל בנפשם. 

הרושם שלך שיחתנו על הגדולים מתקבל כאילו יצאו מתחת יד היוצר בקומתם ובצביונם. הכל משוחחים, מתפעלים ומרימים על נס את טהרת הלשון של בעל החפץ חיים זצ"ל, אבל מי יודע מן כל המלחמות, המאבקים, המכשולים, הנפילות והנסיגות לאחור שמצא החפץ חיים בדרך המלחמה שלו עם יצרו הרע- משל אחד מני אלף. ודי לנבון שכמותך לדון מן הפרט אל הכלל. 


התוצאה מזה היא כשנער בעל רוח, בעל שאיפה, בעל תסיסה מוצא בעצמו מכשולים, נפילות, ירידות, הרי הוא דומה בעיניו כבילתי "שתול בבית השם". שלפי דימיונות של נער זה, להיות שתול בבית השם, פירושו הוא לשבת בשלוות נפש על נאוות דשא של מי מנוחות וליהנות מיצרו הטוב כדרך שצדיקים נהנים מזיו השכינה שעטרותיהם בראשיהם במסיבת גן עדן, ולאידך גיסא, לא להיות מרוגז מסערת היצר על דרך הכתוב של "במתים חופשי"[תהילים פח,ו]. 


אבל דע לך, חביבי, ששורש נשמתך הוא לא השלוה של היצר הטוב, אלא דווקא מלחמתו של היצר הטוב.ומכתבך היקר הנלבב מעיד כמאה עדים כי אכן לוחם נאמן אתה בצבואותיו של היצר הטוב. 


באנגלית אומרים:Lose a battle and win the war [הפסד קרב , ותנצח במלחמה]. בודאי שהנך נכשל ועומד להיות נכשל {אין בזה משום פתיחת פה לשטן}, ובכמה מערכות תיפול שדוד. אבל אני מבטיח לך שלאחר הפסד כל מערכות תצא מן המלחמה כשזר על ראשך, והטרף החד מפרפר בין שינך. 

Lose a battles but win the war . החכם מכל אדם אומר "שבע ייפול צדיק וקם", והטיפשים חושבים כי כוונתו בדרך רבותא: אף על פי ששבע ייפול צדיק, מכול מקום הוא קם. אבל החכמים יודעים היטיב שהכוונה היא שמהות הקימה של הצדיק היא ה" שבע הנפילות" שלו. וירא את כל אשר עשה והנה טוב מאוד. טוב זה יצר טוב, מאוד זה יצר הרע. 


אהובי, הנני לוחץ אותך אל לבבי, ולוחש באוזנך, כי אילו היה מכתבך מספר לי עודות המצוות והמעשים טובים שלך הייתי אומר שקיבלתי ממך מכתב טוב. עכשיו שמכתבך מספר על דבר ירידות ונפילות ומכשולים, הנני אומר שקיבלתי ממך מכתב טוב מאוד. רוחך סוערת לקראת השאיפה להיות גדול. בבקשה ממך, אל תצייר בנפשך גדלותם של גדולי עולם שהם ויצרם הטוב בבחינת חד הוא. לאומת זאת צייר גדלותם של גדולי עולם באותיות של מלחמה נוראה עם כל הנטיות השפלות והנמוכות. ובזמן שהנך מרגיש בקרבך סערת היצר, דע לך שבזה אתה מתדמה אל הגדולים הרבה יותר מאשר בשעה שאתה נמצא במנוחה שלימה שאתה רוצה בה. דווקא באותם המקומות שהנך מוצא בעצמך הירידות הכי מרובות, דווקא באותם המקומות עומד הנך להיות כלי להצטיינות של כבוד שמיים. 


אינך רוצה לגנוב את דעתי, שאחשוב עליך שהנך בקו הטוב בעוד שבאמת שהנך כך וכך, ועוד כך ושבע פעמים כך. ואני מה לי לכל השבע פעמים הללו. בשבילי עבודת היסוד היא כבמשך החורף העבר רכשת לך ידיעה הגונה בהלכות נזקי ממון. חזרת כמה פעמים על המסכת שלמדת. לא תכחיש את זה, זו היא העובדה המכריעה. בעובדה זו גנוז סוד הניצחון במאבק היצרים שלך. 


הנך כותב: "לעולם לא אשכח הרצון שהיה בי להצליח ולעלות מחיל אל חיל, אבל חבל כבר אבדה תקוותי". אינני יודע כיצד אתה מעיז פנים להכחיש מציאות חיה, האם אתה לא עלית מחיל אל חיל מאותו זמן שנכנסת לבית המדרש?! 


מכיר אני אותך שאינך בעל העזה כזה, שלא שהם הם הדברים: אם מוצא אתה בעצמך שיצרך הרע מתגבר עליך, הנך חושב בטיפשות ובתמימות שכבר אבדה תקוותך. דבריך פשוט מביאים לידי גיחוך. משתתף אני בסבלך הרע, אבל הסבל הזה הוא, הוא הרחם של הגדלות. ראיתי את פניך בשעת עיון בהלכה. ראיתי את פניך בשעת הקשבה לשיעורים. ראיתי את פניך בליל שבעי של פסח. האותיות החרותות על פניך בשעות הנ"ל הן אותיות של "סוף הכבוד לבוא". אין שביל הכבוד מתפתל דרך מישור: שביל הכבוד עובר מסתובב כנחש עלי דרך וכשפיפון עלי אורח. ארסו של נחש בקרבך? – הוא ישופך עקב ואתה תשופנו ראש. 


מצאתי לנכון להציע לך דברים הללו במכתב. הכוונה היא לתת לך יכולת להזדקק להם מדי פעם בפעם. מובן מאליו שמפאת זה לא היתה לי הכוונה אלא להקו הכללי. בנוגע לנקודות פרטיות, בזה יפה כוחו של הדיבור החי פנים אל פנים. 


אתה הוא השתול בבית השם ! 


בהשתתפות בסבלך, בביטחון בניצחונך, בתפילה להצלחתך 


יצחק הוטנר. 


נ.ב. עכשיו הנך מבין את המשפט הראשון של המכתב, כי עצם מכתבך מנוגד הוא לכל התיאורים הנמצאים בו.



#9 Rabbi Shapiro

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Posted 09 April 2013 - 06:16 PM

"The Shem MiShmuel writes that the reward for one single Mitzvah is so great that it is worth living a life if all you did is one Mitzvah and nothing else but Aveiros. It is worth going through the punishment of all those Aveiros just to get the reward of one Mitzvah."

I would love to see this inside and if you have other sources that say the same idea I would appreciate it.

Its in the Shem Mishmuel on Shavuos.



#10 FS613

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Posted 10 October 2013 - 01:01 PM

Does a person still have a "clean slate," from Kareis,

 

if he regrets the sin and does Teshuva for it;

 

but he never gets the opportunity to do the sin again and make the choice not to do it?

 

Thank you.



#11 Punims

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Posted 08 April 2014 - 04:03 PM

Of course!