6 replies to this topic

[torah613]

I understand that there were things that Shlomo Carlebach did which were contrary to halacha. But can one still learn from the positive things about his life, such as his mesiras nefesh and love of the Jewish people? Also, what about reading Divrei Torah and "teachings" from him?

[taon]

We can learn from anyone, but with people like him it's mixed up and hard to tell the good from the bad.

[Rabbi Shapiro]

תלמוד בבלי מסכת חגיגה דף טו/ב
מאי דכתיב כי שפתי כהן ישמרו דעת ותורה יבקשו מפיהו כי מלאך ה' צבאות הוא אם דומה הרב למלאך ה' צבאות יבקשו תורה מפיהו ואם לאו אל יבקשו תורה מפיהו

[torah613]

But nobody is perfect like a malach, even great gedolim sometimes make mistakes, so than we theoretically wouldn't be able to learn from anyone? Where do you draw the line?

[Rabbi Shapiro]

Still don't understand where you draw the line.... Almost no one is on the madreigah on a malach...

If one does public aveiros with impunity, that the doer cannot reasonably claim he believes are permitted, that constitutes Chilul Hashem. The Birkei Yosef YD 243 writes that it is prohibited to hear Torah from such a Talmid Chacham.

[torah613]

If there is public aveiros being done with impunity, that the doer cannot reasonably claim he believes are permitted, that constitutes Chilul Hashem. The Birkei Yosef YD 243 writes that it is prohibited to hear Torah from such a Talmid Chacham.

I hear... But how does that explain the gemara - the gemara implies that only if one's Rebbe is perfect like a malach then one can learn from him - how is that ever shayich?

[Rabbi Shapiro]

I hear... But how does that explain the gemara - the gemara implies that only if one's Rebbe is perfect like a malach then one can learn from him - how is that ever shayich?

The Rambam (Talmud Torah 4) says it only means to exclude a Rebbi who is "on a bad Derech," not everyone who is not literally like a Malach.

Aside from that, there are many different explanations of that Chazal in the Meforshim, either saying that the Rebbi has to be similar to a Malach only in a certain way, or Yevakesh Torah mipihu means more than just learning from him. Your question, if we take the Gemora literally we would not be able to learn from anybody, is asked by the Yismach Moshe in Toldos, among others. The Yismach Moshe's answer is that Yevakesh Torah mipihu means more than just learning from him. He says it means you should learn from him even things that you know already, because him being so great affords the Talmid benefit even if he does not gain any new knowledge. There are a lot of answers, but L'halachah, simply apply the Rambam.