27 replies to this topic

[Menorah]

Before the Torah was given, there was no such thing as marriage, and therefore there were no marriage related prohibitions in effect.

In what sense did the Avos keep the Torah?

[taon]

In a complete sense. Drabbonans also. Rav Shapiro wrote about this elsewhere, that Avraham was able to look into the creation, and determine the purposes of each thing, and the mitzvos to be done with them

[Menorah]

Before the Torah was given, there was no such thing as marriage, and therefore there were no marriage related prohibitions in effect.

If there was no such thing as marriage, how was there a difference in the "marital status" of Leah and Rochel compared to Bilhah and Zilpa?

[Rabbi Shapiro]

There wasn't. One was just a permanent commitment; the other was not.

[FS613]

1) So instead of marriage, did the man and woman verbalize that they commit to each other, and this made the bond between them?

Was there a formal ceremony?

2) For example:

In Braishis, Perek 18, Posuk 9, and In Braishis, Perek 20, Posuk 18,

Sarah is called the Isha of Avrohom.

Doesn't that make her, his wife?

Also, if C"V she would have relations with a second man, wouldn't that be considered adultery?

Thank you.

[Rabbi Shapiro]

1) So instead of marriage, did the man and woman verbalize that they commit to each other, and this made the bond between them?

Was there a formal ceremony?

2) For example:

In Braishis, Perek 18, Posuk 9, and In Braishis, Perek 20, Posuk 18,

Sarah is called the Isha of Avrohom.

Doesn't that make her, his wife?

Also, if C"V she would have relations with a second man, wouldn't that be considered adultery?

Thank you.

רמב"ם יד החזקה הלכות אישות פרק א
(א) קודם מתן תורה היה אדם פוגע אשה בשוק אם רצה הוא והיא לישא אותה מכניסה לביתו ובועלה בינו לבין עצמו ותהיה לו לאשה כיון שנתנה תורה נצטוו ישראל שאם ירצה האיש לישא אשה יקנה אותה תחלה בפני עדים ואחר כך תהיה לו לאשה שנאמר (דברים כ"ב) כי יקח איש אשה ובא אליה:

1) No ceremony. Just consent.
2) "Isha" in this context, according to this explanation, means simply "woman," not "wife."
It was considered immoral to take someone else's "woman" but it was not prohibited under the technical Halachic category of אשת איש.

There are other answers given as well for Yaakov being able to marry 2 sisters. This is just one.

[FS613]

If a man and a woman (where the woman has never been married before) who practice Reform "Judaism" are married in a Reform ceremony,

 

presided over by a Reform "Rabbi;"

 

is the marriage considered Kosher according to the Torah, if the couple decides at a later time to divorce?

 

Does the woman need a Get?

 

Thank you.

[Rabbi Shapiro]

The marriage transaction does not need a Kosher rabbi. Assuming the witnesses were not kosher, or there was some other disqualifying factor, it would most likely be a Machlokes whether they are Halachicly married. 

 

She would need a Get because of the opinion that she is married.