why cant we talk to boys? why is it against halacha?
boys
Started by
jewishthought
, Dec 30 2011 03:55 PM
12 replies to this topic
#2
Rabbi Shapiro
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Posted 15 January 2012 - 01:01 AM
From something I wrote 12 years ago:
The severity of an aveirah is not the only criterion to determine how dangerous the aveirah is.
There are aveiros that can do damage way beyond their severity.
If, for instance, someone kills himself, he did one aveirah. But he ruined his future prospects for doing Mitzvos. Or if someone cuts off his hand, that's only one aveirah, but now he can't put on tefillin for the rest of his life.
So too, the difference between getting invovled with guys vs. other equally severe indiscretions is that even though the guys may not be a worse aveirah per se, they can do more damage. And I am NOT talking about "leading" to worse things. Getting invovled with guys changes you. Even if it leads to nothing.
You start becoming concerned about when he will call again, IF he will call again,what he thinks of you.
When you hang up the phone with him, there's this "that was good" feeling that does NOT happen when you hang up after a Loshon Horah session with your female friends.
When you finish speaking Loshon Horah, it's over and done with. When you finish speaking with a guy, you get a "when will he call again?" feeling. The Yetzer Horah is becoming part of you.
If you don't believe me, compare how long it feels like when you've been on the phone with a guy for an hour vs. when you've been on the phone talking Loshon Horah for an hour. Talking with guys becomes a comfortable part of you, more enjoyable and more easily and smoothly done, than the Loshon Horah.
Here's what usually what happens when a girl gets invovled with guys - and I'm talking about a "good" guy:
It starts off as a casual friendship. It doesn't feel as if there's anything bad happening. In fact, he makes you feel spiritually stronger. You help each other with your problems. Maybe he even tells you a dvar Torah now and them (I'm not kidding).
But even though you feel stronger, you're getting weaker. Strength has to come from inside you, not from a guy. Your guy is slowly becoming a crutch. He makes you walk straighter and stronger, but you're becoming more and more dependent on a guy to be able to walk straight and strong. As you rely more on more on guys for your strength, your ability to muster your own inner strength diminishes. It's the same as with any crutch. You, yourself, are actually becoming weaker.
Hashem made guys to marry and live with. Then, it's OK to rely on them - hopefully they'll be around forever. Hashem made guy/girl relationships such that the couple become dependent on each other, stronger as a unit then they ever were individually. Some of his and her strength and souls are donated to the unit, and a new entity is created stronger than both of them put together.
That's good in a marriage. But very bad in a casual teenage relationship. This "donating of strength" begins, but the guy is only going to stay around until you dump or get dumped.
You don't need this now.
You don't need a psycho-emotional crutch draining your sensitivites and feelings and pooling it into a collective entity that will vanish shortly, taking part of your soul with it.
You may have heard that guys use girls. Now you know that they not only use them, they actually use them up.
The teenage years are the WORST time to get into such a relationship. Your emotions, feelings, and self-esteem are complicated enough as it is that you don't need a guy in your life to make all that even worse.
That's why it feels so good - it's like a drug that makes it appear as if the complexities in you are settling. But the reality is that part of you is getting weaker.
This is why we must be more rigorous when protecting ourselves from the Yetzer horah for guys than from other, perhaps equally severe sins. Guys mess with our minds and our souls and effect us in ways that the other sins don't.
Bottom line lesson: Don't judge a sin by its severity. There are less severe sins that are very dangerous, and more severe sins that are comaratively less dangerous. One sin can sometimes slide you down a slippery slope that is difficult to climb up from.
PS - The same logic applies to the drug question as well. The problem with drugs more than other sins is not the severity, it's the danger.
The severity of an aveirah is not the only criterion to determine how dangerous the aveirah is.
There are aveiros that can do damage way beyond their severity.
If, for instance, someone kills himself, he did one aveirah. But he ruined his future prospects for doing Mitzvos. Or if someone cuts off his hand, that's only one aveirah, but now he can't put on tefillin for the rest of his life.
So too, the difference between getting invovled with guys vs. other equally severe indiscretions is that even though the guys may not be a worse aveirah per se, they can do more damage. And I am NOT talking about "leading" to worse things. Getting invovled with guys changes you. Even if it leads to nothing.
You start becoming concerned about when he will call again, IF he will call again,what he thinks of you.
When you hang up the phone with him, there's this "that was good" feeling that does NOT happen when you hang up after a Loshon Horah session with your female friends.
When you finish speaking Loshon Horah, it's over and done with. When you finish speaking with a guy, you get a "when will he call again?" feeling. The Yetzer Horah is becoming part of you.
If you don't believe me, compare how long it feels like when you've been on the phone with a guy for an hour vs. when you've been on the phone talking Loshon Horah for an hour. Talking with guys becomes a comfortable part of you, more enjoyable and more easily and smoothly done, than the Loshon Horah.
Here's what usually what happens when a girl gets invovled with guys - and I'm talking about a "good" guy:
It starts off as a casual friendship. It doesn't feel as if there's anything bad happening. In fact, he makes you feel spiritually stronger. You help each other with your problems. Maybe he even tells you a dvar Torah now and them (I'm not kidding).
But even though you feel stronger, you're getting weaker. Strength has to come from inside you, not from a guy. Your guy is slowly becoming a crutch. He makes you walk straighter and stronger, but you're becoming more and more dependent on a guy to be able to walk straight and strong. As you rely more on more on guys for your strength, your ability to muster your own inner strength diminishes. It's the same as with any crutch. You, yourself, are actually becoming weaker.
Hashem made guys to marry and live with. Then, it's OK to rely on them - hopefully they'll be around forever. Hashem made guy/girl relationships such that the couple become dependent on each other, stronger as a unit then they ever were individually. Some of his and her strength and souls are donated to the unit, and a new entity is created stronger than both of them put together.
That's good in a marriage. But very bad in a casual teenage relationship. This "donating of strength" begins, but the guy is only going to stay around until you dump or get dumped.
You don't need this now.
You don't need a psycho-emotional crutch draining your sensitivites and feelings and pooling it into a collective entity that will vanish shortly, taking part of your soul with it.
You may have heard that guys use girls. Now you know that they not only use them, they actually use them up.
The teenage years are the WORST time to get into such a relationship. Your emotions, feelings, and self-esteem are complicated enough as it is that you don't need a guy in your life to make all that even worse.
That's why it feels so good - it's like a drug that makes it appear as if the complexities in you are settling. But the reality is that part of you is getting weaker.
This is why we must be more rigorous when protecting ourselves from the Yetzer horah for guys than from other, perhaps equally severe sins. Guys mess with our minds and our souls and effect us in ways that the other sins don't.
Bottom line lesson: Don't judge a sin by its severity. There are less severe sins that are very dangerous, and more severe sins that are comaratively less dangerous. One sin can sometimes slide you down a slippery slope that is difficult to climb up from.
PS - The same logic applies to the drug question as well. The problem with drugs more than other sins is not the severity, it's the danger.
***
Besides all that, as Rav Moshe Feinstein ZTL writes, girls and boys being "just friends" is prohibited Halachicly, Min HaTorah.
#5
Rabbi Shapiro
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Posted 16 January 2012 - 10:52 PM
Nah. The other people are saying something different. What I'm saying is the simple pshat. ;-)ik!!! all i evr heard was geder!!! i love this site! thnx so much R' Schapiro!!!...u always have something DIFFERENT 2 say!!!
Thank you for the kind words.
#7
shira
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Posted 17 January 2012 - 09:36 PM
hi im kind of new at this site, but i wanted to thank you for adressing this topic. but is there anything you can suggest that would help me stop talking to boys? i mean, in school i have like 0 friends. hes the only one who seems to understand me, ive been having so so many issues. ive tried to kill myself so many times. im a cutter and i have a therapist, but i also need a friend. girlfriends are not doing the job for me. really not. hes really nice and patient and theres nothing romantic going on. were just friends.
#8
rocksdontfly
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Posted 18 January 2012 - 07:40 AM
haha ya ik! after I read his posts everything just clicks! he always explains everything so well!ik!!! all i evr heard was geder!!! i love this site! thnx so much R' Schapiro!!!...u always have something DIFFERENT 2 say!!!
thanks Rabbi Shapiro!!
#9
ilavHashem
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Posted 12 February 2012 - 12:51 AM
But even though you feel stronger, you're getting weaker. Strength has to come from inside you, not from a guy. Your guy is slowly becoming a crutch. He makes you walk straighter and stronger, but you're becoming more and more dependent on a guy to be able to walk straight and strong. As you rely more on more on guys for your strength, your ability to muster your own inner strength diminishes. It's the same as with any crutch. You, yourself, are actually becoming weaker.
isn't a mentor something like this?
#11
danceInTheRain
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Posted 19 February 2012 - 04:16 AM
yup, its a big problem and many people have been hurt because they became dependent on there mentor. becoming dependent is very easy because the job of a mentor is to be compatianate, caring (when usually nobody else is) and more.
isn't a mentor something like this?
part of the art of being a GOOD mentor is making sure you are helping the person without making them dependent on you. it making sure you are teaching the person where there own powers lie and how to utilize them ON THEIR OWN.
of course its easier to make a person dependent on you as a mentor. but that is not really helping them. so if a mentor is doing that he is doing something detrimental. but of course this is a big problem because it is a very thin line
#12
Rabbi Shapiro
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Posted 11 March 2012 - 02:39 PM
isn't a mentor something like this?
No. While it is true that you can become dependent on any type of assistance - a mentor, a crutch, a medicine, your ipod - there is a very big difference.
Becoming dependent on assistance where you dont need to, means you are using that assistance too much, too often, too intensely, or the wrong way. If you become dependent on the mentor it means something went a bit wrong with the plan.
The male-female relationship dependence means nothing went wrong with the relationship. Nature designed things that men and women should depend on each other, but not just "depend" on each other in the sense that you rely on their assistance. Nature designed male-female relationships to make the couple into a Unit, to function as a Unit. Nature designed men to be not merely reliant on women (and vice versa) but connected to them emotionally, spiritually and psychologically, such that they can form a Whole that is greater than the sum of its parts. This bond is designed to create a couple and hold that couple together, as a single unit, for the rest of their lives.
If you are dependent on a mentor, you have come to rely on something outside of yourself. Male-female relationships don't make you merely reliant on the other party - they make you part of the other party. Big difference.
And whereas it can happen with a mentor, if it does, it is a problem. It happened because a mistake happened in the operations of the relationship. With male-female relationships, such melding of strengths is not a mistake. It IS the relationship. It defines it. It means nothing went wrong in the relationship - which is why such relationships are a problem.
