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LASHON HARA ABOUT SUM1 HUS OTD


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#1 ilavHashem

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Posted 16 January 2012 - 11:10 PM

in the chofetz chaim-shmiras halashon yomi book, it sais that speakig lashon hara about someone who was born to a religious family but rejected the torah's ways is permissible!...this really confused me because, just because someone left the ways of Torah, it does not take away the fact that they are a part of Hashem, and He is waiting for their teshuva! idk...it just doesn't seem right, we are supposed to love every jew, (so i can understand why speaking about a non-jew is not considered lashon hara...)but a Jew??? being OtD ("off the derech") doesn't take away from ur identity as a Jew!! its inherent!!
care 2 clarify any1??
thnx!

#2 Rabbi Shapiro

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Posted 09 April 2012 - 06:29 PM

What it says in that Sefer is correct. The reason is, it is not prohibited to speak Loshon Horah on every Jew. The Posuk qualifies those who are protected under the laws of Loshon Horah: לא תלך רכיל בעמיך - meaning, only Jews that are considered "amechah" you may not speak or accept Loshon Horah about. But the Torah never prohibited Loshon Horah on Jews that do not keep Torah and Mitzvos, or on Jews who are Apikorsim.The reason that book referred only to someone who went off the Derech, is because a Tinok Shenishbah is not excluded. Someone who grew up in a frum family is not considered a Tinok Shenishba.

The way we understand this is, yes, Hashem waits with open arms for these Jews to do Teshuva. But because they were brought up frum and have chosen, on their own, to abandon Torah and Mitzvos, and live a life of rebellion against our Father and King, siding with the Destroyer against Klall Yisroel, endangering the world in a way that a non-Jew can never do, to use the Jewish soul and the Bechirah that comes with it - the holiest thing in the cosmos, the greatest gift ever bestowed to anyone - to make Bechirah choices against Hashem and His people, because of this, and more, he is considered a traitor. A Tinok Shnishba is the wounded of our people; the not-religious-by-choice are the defectors. They are now fighting for the Enemy. And as such, they have chosen, on their own volition - remember - these people did have a choice - to join the enemies of Hashem.

Hashem, in His benevolence, does have mercy on them, and accepts their Teshuva no matter how much insult they heap upon Him and His honor and His people, and also, it is a great Mitzvah to bring these traitors back to Hashem's side - both for their sake as well as ours.

However, so long as they choose to be in the other camp, they are not protected by privileges that are given to our camp - Amisecha.

One of those Halachos are Loshon Horah. We want these people to do Teshuva, and we should do what we can (without endangering ourselves) to make that happen. And we cry for our loss when they decide to go off. But it is their choice, and one of the things that they choose to abandon when they decide to go off, together with the benefits of keeping Shabbos and Kashrus, are the benefits of being Amisecha. One of which, is the prohibition of Loshon Horah.

(And besides all that, the fact that going off results in losing Judaic privileges serves as a deterrent for those who are considering going off.)

#3 FS613

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 09:46 AM

Rabbi, does the above mean, for example, like the following:

I ran into a distant relative, very recently, who told me that her brother,

who was raised in a "Black Hat, Yeshivish" home and went to a "Black Hat" Yeshiva and now has grown married Frum children and grandchildren,

R"L got divorced, moved away, and R"L is now dating a non-Jewish woman.

The family is understandably very upset, and his children want nothing to do with him.

She told me that he can't understand why they're upset and want nothing to do with him.

If I repeat this information to another family member who didn't know about the situation, would this be considered Loshon Hora?

Thank you.

#4 Rabbi Shapiro

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Posted 26 August 2012 - 03:48 PM

If he is no longer frum, no it is not Loshon Horah.