Gedolim and Zionism
#1
Posted 22 January 2012 - 05:22 PM
#2
Posted 29 January 2012 - 08:20 PM
The Satmar Rebbe held that such an approach is not Hatzolah Purtah but rather makes you an accessory to the crime after the fact. He held that we still need to have nothing to do with the Zionists including joining their state.
Opposition to Zionism was not the issue. Opposition to joining the Zionists was.
As far as where to get information, try here.http://classic.frumteens.com.
If that does not work, try here and here.
#6
Posted 26 August 2012 - 02:37 PM
Well you're leaving out the main part of the question: How did this person decide to begin with which Gedolim "to generally go by"?If someone relates more to the opinion of the Satmar Rebbe but is not Satmar himself should he follow the Satmar Rebbe's view? Or should he follow the view of other gedolim who he would generally go by?
#7
Posted 26 August 2012 - 03:03 PM
Well you're leaving out the main part of the question: How did this person decide to begin with which Gedolim "to generally go by"?
He follows his rabbaim. Maybe I wasn't so clear. I'll try and ask my question in a different way. letssay I follow what my rav/community does. What should I/one do if in a particular case another view makes more sense? aren't you not supposed to go "rabbi shopping"?
#8
Posted 26 August 2012 - 03:41 PM
"Rabbi shopping" means asking around until you get an answer you want (and even then, it' not always prohibited - but that's not for now). But it does not say anywhere that you have to follow one Rav regarding everything. Especially in a case where the Rav you want to follow in a particular area is the greater one, or you believe he has proven his case.He follows his rabbaim. Maybe I wasn't so clear. I'll try and ask my question in a different way. letssay I follow what my rav/community does. What should I/one do if in a particular case another view makes more sense? aren't you not supposed to go "rabbi shopping"?
#9
Posted 26 August 2012 - 05:18 PM
"Rabbi shopping" means asking around until you get an answer you want (and even then, it' not always prohibited - but that's not for now). But it does not say anywhere that you have to follow one Rav regarding everything. Especially in a case where the Rav you want to follow in a particular area is the greater one, or you believe he has proven his case.
But who am I to say that Rav Shach's view isn't "as good" as the Satmar Rebbe or vice versa. My Torah knowledge insight and objectivity doesn't even compare to theirs. I just think I would be choosing one over the other without enough expertise and that given that lacking my opinion isn't worth much.
#10
Posted 26 August 2012 - 05:33 PM
Then why would you want to follow one over the other?But who am I to say that Rav Shach's view isn't "as good" as the Satmar Rebbe or vice versa. My Torah knowledge insight and objectivity doesn't even compare to theirs. I just think I would be choosing one over the other without enough expertise and that given that lacking my opinion isn't worth much.
But I have a more important question - do you have an idea of what the views of either of these Geodlim are? Specifically, do you know regarding what they disagree altogether that choosing is even an option?
#11
Posted 27 August 2012 - 05:01 PM
Then why would you want to follow one over the other?
But I have a more important question - do you have an idea of what the views of either of these Geodlim are? Specifically, do you know regarding what they disagree altogether that choosing is even an option?
You explained the positions in an earlier post but in my own words I see the 2 views as either 1. Didn't want the state to have been established but now that its here do what one can to influence the state from within as a form of damage control. vs 2. Joining the government and Zionists makes you a partner in crime.
I'm not sure if i understand your question but i would like to follow one over the other b.c they are mutually exclusive. On the one hand I can relate more to the position about not "joining the enemy" but on the other hand that is the view of my most in my community and if its a valid perspective maybe I' just missing something and should go like the majority
#12
Posted 31 August 2012 - 09:16 AM
Also, these two issues (which are really one and the same) - joining the government and voting - are not a "perspective" thing. It is a Halachic dispute. With more than two sides. Therefore, when you say you can "relate" to one position more than the other, it is irrelevant, because the ability to "relate" to a particular side is not a criterion that may be used to pasken like that side.
All that said, you do not have to follow your community or the quantitative majority in this matter. There are no such requirements.