Jump to content


Photo

Halachos of Home Swimming Pool?


  • Please log in to reply
8 replies to this topic

#1 JewishAttorney

JewishAttorney

    Member

  • Members
  • 60 posts

Posted 02 February 2012 - 01:47 PM

Hi Rabbi Shapiro,

Mazel Tov on the grandson!!!

If a family makes a swimming pool on their backyard, are there any halachos to be aware of? I've just returned from a break in an area where it's summer now and thought of the question as many families seem to have swimming pools there.

For example, if a husband and his friends go swimming while wives just sit fully dressed and chat on a patio is that an issue?

What about kids swimming? (A) siblings, (b.) not siblings. Thanks.

#2 Rabbi Shapiro

Rabbi Shapiro

    Member

  • Administrators
  • 1,423 posts

Posted 11 February 2012 - 10:51 PM

if a husband and his friends go swimming while wives just sit fully dressed and chat on a patio is that an issue?

I am assuming the swimming men are in full view of the women.

Although there are Poskim that are strict, L'Halachah women have no prohibition of Histaklus looking at men.

However, a practice such as you describe should still not be done, because even though Histaklus is not prohibited for women, Hirhurim are. (We derive the prohibition of Hirhurim from the Lo Saaseh of לא תתורו אחרי עיניכם in which men and women are equally obligated.) Such behavior can likely result in a violation of this Laav and is therefore Halachicly ill-advised. And honestly, even if there wouldn't be any Halachic concerns, it certainly would not be considered the most Tzniusdik behavior.

As far as kids, siblings are not a Halachic problem. After puberty, however, I do not recommend it from a Chinuch perspective. Regarding non-siblings, it is prohibited for children to go mixed swimming (with older co-swimmers) if they are old enough to remember the experience when they get older. From what I hear, this is around age 3 and sometimes even younger.

#3 JewishAttorney

JewishAttorney

    Member

  • Members
  • 60 posts

Posted 19 February 2012 - 10:31 PM

Thanks for the reply, Rabbi Shapiro!! When b'h I get happily married and If I ever get enough money to get a swimming pool, I'll ask the wife and her friends to wait till the guys are done swimming :)

PS: The country I visited is South Africa and boy do frum families there have amazing houses and swimming pools! Johannesburg community called Glenhazel is highly recommended to visit!

#4 JewishAttorney

JewishAttorney

    Member

  • Members
  • 60 posts

Posted 14 March 2012 - 02:26 PM

By the way,

If parents get into a swimming pool with children, do the same rules regarding children and puberty apply? In other words, a child post-puberty of one gender should not get into a swimming pool with a parent of the opposite gender, right?

#5 Rabbi Shapiro

Rabbi Shapiro

    Member

  • Administrators
  • 1,423 posts

Posted 09 April 2012 - 06:46 PM

By the way,

If parents get into a swimming pool with children, do the same rules regarding children and puberty apply? In other words, a child post-puberty of one gender should not get into a swimming pool with a parent of the opposite gender, right?

There is no Halachic problem with that, but for Chinuch reasons I would agree with you.

#6 JewishAttorney

JewishAttorney

    Member

  • Members
  • 60 posts

Posted 04 July 2012 - 03:42 PM

There is no Halachic problem with that, but for Chinuch reasons I would agree with you.


Happy Fourth of July!

Today, many people in my neighborhood are going to the beach. On numerous occasions, I have observed frum ladies also go to the beach/boardwalk fully dressed.

Based on our discussion in this thread about swimming pool, is it correct to conclude that:

1. They are not allowed to do so due to presence of men in nothing but swimming shorts? Also, does it mean both men and women are not allowed to walk on the boardwalk or the beach in general?

2. Wouldn't it be the same as merely walking outside in the summer (or year long in Miami) or is there a difference based on likelihood and expectation to notice people wearing almost nothing?

3. Finally, are there any circumstances where religious people would be allowed to be at the beach?

4. If yes, would swimming dressed or in aqua-suits help in any way for either gender? Thanks!

#7 Rabbi Shapiro

Rabbi Shapiro

    Member

  • Administrators
  • 1,423 posts

Posted 04 July 2012 - 04:10 PM

1 - Women are Halachicly permitted to see men in shorts.

2 - Pritzus should always be avoided where possible but there is no obligation to refrain from going about your normal business because of it. (And as bad as the street is, the beach is worse.)

3 - Men? On a beach with women for leisure purposes? No.

4 - For men it is unnecessary; for women it is insufficient.

#8 JewishAttorney

JewishAttorney

    Member

  • Members
  • 60 posts

Posted 04 July 2012 - 04:18 PM

1 - Women are Halachicly permitted to see men in shorts.

2 - Pritzus should always be avoided where possible but there is no obligation to refrain from going about your normal business because of it. (And as bad as the street is, the beach is worse.)

3 - Men? On a beach with women for leisure purposes? No.

4 - For men it is unnecessary; for women it is insufficient.


Thanks for replying so quickly, Rabbi Shapiro.

If it's ok for women to walk on the beach because they are allowed to see men in shorts, what's the difference between this hypo and the one the thread originated with where women are around men who are in a swimming pool?

From what I understand, when in this last post you said "permitted" you meant exactly what you said about swimming pool - L'Chalacha ok but due to Hirthurim should not do it, right?

#9 Rabbi Shapiro

Rabbi Shapiro

    Member

  • Administrators
  • 1,423 posts

Posted 26 August 2012 - 03:54 PM

Hirhurei Aveirah are prohibited for women. Therefore, anything that would generate such Hirhum may not be done. Because it is the Hirhurim that causes the prohibition, it is therefore a judgment call as to what degree of exposure would reach the threshold of becoming prohibited. Obviously, when in doubt, stay away.