Okay, so I know that learning Torah is obligated for a man, and he must learn something everyday.
Why do men learn in Yeshiva full time? There has to be a central group of people learning Torah all day for a reason, but why is it nowadays so many people?
I just feel like a guy is considered "less frum" if he works and doesn't learn, but he should set aside time to learn no matter what and work is not his top priority.
It just becomes a huge hashkafa thing! Its so silly! Learner/Earner... what if I want an Earner because I believe the Torah says he should work and he's not that frum? Then I have a much bigger hashkafa issue when it comes to Shidduchim.
The Greatness Of Torah Learning
Started by
shifpifer1
, Apr 17 2012 09:03 PM
22 replies to this topic
#2
Rabbi Shapiro
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Posted 29 April 2012 - 09:42 AM
The reason why we learn is not because it is an obligation - if that were so, you'd be right. We could discharge our obligation with a bit of learning in the day and another bit in the night. We learn because it is an opportunity, because becoming a Talmid Chacham - and by that I mean the biggest Talmid Chacham you can possibly be - is the best thing you can do for yourself, your family, and the world. There is no obligation for a person to make a billion dollars. But if he could, he would. Learning more is is spiritually making more. A lot more. This is something I wrote about about this topic many years ago:
The overwhelmingly most important advantage of learning full time is that you are learning more than if you learn not to full time. Simple as that. Torah learning is the highest, greatest, most glorious form of avodas Hashem, which will get for you the greatest share in Olam Habah possible, much much more and much much greater than any other thing you can do for Hashem, including any other type of Mitzvos. Learning Torah brings by far the greatest Nachas to Hashem, the greatest benefits to Klall yisroel, and the greatest benefits to those who do the learning, than anything else you can possibly do.
Hands down, no contest.
That's why we learn.
As an example: A man once came to the Chazon Ish asking him advice. he got 2 job offers, and he wants to know which to take. The first is Kashrus administrator of the rabbanut, a position in which he is confident that he would be able to chnage the kashrus standards in all of eretz yisroel, causing the public to eat only kosher food. If he does not take this job, they will hire someone who does not have his standards and the public who rely on this hesher will not eat kosher (note: I do not know what the issues with the hechsher were, or how severe). His other choice is to be a rebbi in a yeshiva. If he does not take that job, the Yeshiva will hire a different ben torah, on the same level as him, so its not as if the kids are going to be less frum.
Which job should he take, he asked.
The Chazon Ish asked him, "Do you think, if you take the job as a Rebbi, that you could perhaps convince 2 of your students to learn during a Bain Hazemanim?"
"Yes," he said. "Ithink I can do that."
"Then you should know," said the Chazon Ish, "that two kids learning Torah bain hazemanim as if it were the zman, is much more valuable to Hashem than making the entire Eretz Yisroel eat kosher!"
This is the kind of material that boys are taught in yeshiva. This is the main motivation for learning in Kollel.
The situation these days in Eretz Yisroel is terrible. We need to help our brothers there. What can we do - spiritually, I am talking about now - to help?
Well, the Chazon Ish said that learning one single Tosfos has the power to nullify many evil decrees on Klall Yisroel."
It can take any where from a few minutes to much longer to learn a Tosfos. One single Tosfos -- perhaps a few minutes of Torah learning - can nullify many Gezeiros against Klall Yisroel.
We say it every day: Talmud Torah Kneged Kulam. This means, say Chazal, that learning one word of Torah - one! word! - imparts more holiness than a lifetime of doing Mitzvos!
The Vilna Gaon comments: So when somoene learns just one page of gemora, he covers hundreds of words, each of which gives him more Kedusha than a lifetime of doing Mitzvos.
In Yeshiva, they teach this, that Torah learning - as opposed to any othe form of Avodas Hashem - is by far, by very, very far, the highest and greatest act of Avodah that a person can be invovled in, and through it, one merits by far, by very very far, the greatest measure of Olam Habah; and through it, one releases, by far, by very very far, the very greatest measure of Hashem's influence and Goodness into this world.
Nothing compares. Nothing comes close. Not Kiruv, not Tzedakah, not Hatzalah, nothing.
Please note, that all those other endeavors - the Mitzvah ones - are glorious and wonderful forms of Avodas hashem. But Torah learning is a billion times greater.
All this applies to the act of learning, even if it is done by someone who is not a Talmid Chacham.
But the Talmid Chacham, even if he does not teach, even if he does not preach, is, more than anything else, the one most valuable thing to Hashem in this world. And no wonder. If one world of Torah learning can bring more kedusha into this woprld than a lifetime of anything else, then the very existence of the Talmid Chacham is a conduit of holiness and Hashem's Influence into this world. The very presence of the Talmid Chacham benefits our world in ways that nothgin else can.
As Rav Hutner ZTL used to point out - every utensil in the Bais HaMikdash had some kind of avodah done with it. Except the Aron. The Aron did nothgin but exist. The Aron represents the talmid chachm, the container of the Torah. it does not need to do any act. Its very presence is its success.
(Of course, this does not mean that a Talmid Chacham does not have to fulfill the Mitzvos. Doing Mitzvos is part of being a Talmid Chacham, because if someone does not Do what he learns, then obviously his learning is not meant seriously, and is not real learning.)
But a Talmid Chacham does not have to be "employed." The Vilna Gaon had no "job." He was not the local rabbi, Rosh Yeshiva, or anything. He was like the Aron Kodesh. In our days, the Chazon Ish, the Steipler, and yibd"l Rav Chaim Kanievsky had/have no "jobs". Each are an Aron HaKodesh.
Rav Ahron Kotler ZTL said in his hesped of the Chazon Ish, that the reason the Chazon Ish was bigger than him, was because the Chazon Ish had no yeshiva to run; he had nothing in his life except Torah.
The goal of becoming a Talmid Chacham is so, so, so desirable, that everyone is encouraged to pursue it. If you can’t, or won’t, for whatever reason, nobody here is judging you. But no question -- if our goal in this world is to bring Nachas Ruach to Hashem / to accumulate merits for Olam Habah / to sanctify the world / etc etc -- becoming a Talmid Chacham is by far the best way to go.
But even if you are not going to be a Talmid Chacham, being the closest you can become, is also the most desirable and glorious and highest goal for you. Learning itself is the greatest act of Avodas Hashem that can be performed in the world.
One more important point: Contrary to the belief of many, it is impossible to predict who will become a Talmid Chacham. As the Chazon Ish said, "Every student is a possible godol hador". The Roshei Yeshiva of today were not all the ones who people thought would become the Roshei Yeshiva of today. And vice versa. Talent and intellect help, to be sure, but effort and siyata dishmaya are more important to success as a Torah scholar. Becoming a "godol" is not just for the brightest. In fact, often it is not they who attain that goal. An average student, and it has happened that also below average students, have become great Gedolim and surpassed their more talented peers.
Not everybody can become the greatest Talmid Chacham in the world. But everybody can become as close to the greatest Talmid chacham in the world that he can. Those Bnei Torah, the ones who pour their heart and soul and life into learning Hashem's Torah, merit, every single one of them, the greatest share in Olam Habah possible.
That is the main reason people learn in Kollel. Because Talmud Torah Kneged Kulam.
There are tons more good reasons --- like the effect it has on your home, on your Mitzvah performance, on your personality, on your children --- all of which are excellent reasons. But the main reason is, that our goal in this world is to go higher and higher. And there is no better way to go higher than to learn.
Nothing even close.
The overwhelmingly most important advantage of learning full time is that you are learning more than if you learn not to full time. Simple as that. Torah learning is the highest, greatest, most glorious form of avodas Hashem, which will get for you the greatest share in Olam Habah possible, much much more and much much greater than any other thing you can do for Hashem, including any other type of Mitzvos. Learning Torah brings by far the greatest Nachas to Hashem, the greatest benefits to Klall yisroel, and the greatest benefits to those who do the learning, than anything else you can possibly do.
Hands down, no contest.
That's why we learn.
As an example: A man once came to the Chazon Ish asking him advice. he got 2 job offers, and he wants to know which to take. The first is Kashrus administrator of the rabbanut, a position in which he is confident that he would be able to chnage the kashrus standards in all of eretz yisroel, causing the public to eat only kosher food. If he does not take this job, they will hire someone who does not have his standards and the public who rely on this hesher will not eat kosher (note: I do not know what the issues with the hechsher were, or how severe). His other choice is to be a rebbi in a yeshiva. If he does not take that job, the Yeshiva will hire a different ben torah, on the same level as him, so its not as if the kids are going to be less frum.
Which job should he take, he asked.
The Chazon Ish asked him, "Do you think, if you take the job as a Rebbi, that you could perhaps convince 2 of your students to learn during a Bain Hazemanim?"
"Yes," he said. "Ithink I can do that."
"Then you should know," said the Chazon Ish, "that two kids learning Torah bain hazemanim as if it were the zman, is much more valuable to Hashem than making the entire Eretz Yisroel eat kosher!"
This is the kind of material that boys are taught in yeshiva. This is the main motivation for learning in Kollel.
The situation these days in Eretz Yisroel is terrible. We need to help our brothers there. What can we do - spiritually, I am talking about now - to help?
Well, the Chazon Ish said that learning one single Tosfos has the power to nullify many evil decrees on Klall Yisroel."
It can take any where from a few minutes to much longer to learn a Tosfos. One single Tosfos -- perhaps a few minutes of Torah learning - can nullify many Gezeiros against Klall Yisroel.
We say it every day: Talmud Torah Kneged Kulam. This means, say Chazal, that learning one word of Torah - one! word! - imparts more holiness than a lifetime of doing Mitzvos!
The Vilna Gaon comments: So when somoene learns just one page of gemora, he covers hundreds of words, each of which gives him more Kedusha than a lifetime of doing Mitzvos.
In Yeshiva, they teach this, that Torah learning - as opposed to any othe form of Avodas Hashem - is by far, by very, very far, the highest and greatest act of Avodah that a person can be invovled in, and through it, one merits by far, by very very far, the greatest measure of Olam Habah; and through it, one releases, by far, by very very far, the very greatest measure of Hashem's influence and Goodness into this world.
Nothing compares. Nothing comes close. Not Kiruv, not Tzedakah, not Hatzalah, nothing.
Please note, that all those other endeavors - the Mitzvah ones - are glorious and wonderful forms of Avodas hashem. But Torah learning is a billion times greater.
All this applies to the act of learning, even if it is done by someone who is not a Talmid Chacham.
But the Talmid Chacham, even if he does not teach, even if he does not preach, is, more than anything else, the one most valuable thing to Hashem in this world. And no wonder. If one world of Torah learning can bring more kedusha into this woprld than a lifetime of anything else, then the very existence of the Talmid Chacham is a conduit of holiness and Hashem's Influence into this world. The very presence of the Talmid Chacham benefits our world in ways that nothgin else can.
As Rav Hutner ZTL used to point out - every utensil in the Bais HaMikdash had some kind of avodah done with it. Except the Aron. The Aron did nothgin but exist. The Aron represents the talmid chachm, the container of the Torah. it does not need to do any act. Its very presence is its success.
(Of course, this does not mean that a Talmid Chacham does not have to fulfill the Mitzvos. Doing Mitzvos is part of being a Talmid Chacham, because if someone does not Do what he learns, then obviously his learning is not meant seriously, and is not real learning.)
But a Talmid Chacham does not have to be "employed." The Vilna Gaon had no "job." He was not the local rabbi, Rosh Yeshiva, or anything. He was like the Aron Kodesh. In our days, the Chazon Ish, the Steipler, and yibd"l Rav Chaim Kanievsky had/have no "jobs". Each are an Aron HaKodesh.
Rav Ahron Kotler ZTL said in his hesped of the Chazon Ish, that the reason the Chazon Ish was bigger than him, was because the Chazon Ish had no yeshiva to run; he had nothing in his life except Torah.
The goal of becoming a Talmid Chacham is so, so, so desirable, that everyone is encouraged to pursue it. If you can’t, or won’t, for whatever reason, nobody here is judging you. But no question -- if our goal in this world is to bring Nachas Ruach to Hashem / to accumulate merits for Olam Habah / to sanctify the world / etc etc -- becoming a Talmid Chacham is by far the best way to go.
But even if you are not going to be a Talmid Chacham, being the closest you can become, is also the most desirable and glorious and highest goal for you. Learning itself is the greatest act of Avodas Hashem that can be performed in the world.
One more important point: Contrary to the belief of many, it is impossible to predict who will become a Talmid Chacham. As the Chazon Ish said, "Every student is a possible godol hador". The Roshei Yeshiva of today were not all the ones who people thought would become the Roshei Yeshiva of today. And vice versa. Talent and intellect help, to be sure, but effort and siyata dishmaya are more important to success as a Torah scholar. Becoming a "godol" is not just for the brightest. In fact, often it is not they who attain that goal. An average student, and it has happened that also below average students, have become great Gedolim and surpassed their more talented peers.
Not everybody can become the greatest Talmid Chacham in the world. But everybody can become as close to the greatest Talmid chacham in the world that he can. Those Bnei Torah, the ones who pour their heart and soul and life into learning Hashem's Torah, merit, every single one of them, the greatest share in Olam Habah possible.
That is the main reason people learn in Kollel. Because Talmud Torah Kneged Kulam.
There are tons more good reasons --- like the effect it has on your home, on your Mitzvah performance, on your personality, on your children --- all of which are excellent reasons. But the main reason is, that our goal in this world is to go higher and higher. And there is no better way to go higher than to learn.
Nothing even close.
#4
Rabbi Shapiro
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Posted 15 May 2012 - 06:20 AM
Because the Torah is the articulation of the will of Hashem.I never understood this. What is it about learning that is so powerful? What are they learning that is so -- shattering that its so special to HaShem?
And Hashem and His will are one.
When someone learns Torah to fulfill it, he is making Hashem's will identical to his own will. And because the only thing a person has control of in this world, the only thing that makes a person more than a robot, is his will (i.e. his choices - הכל בידי שמים חוץ מיראת שמים), therefore, when someone learns Torah, he is connecting himself to Hashem in the closest and deepest manner possible.
#5
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Posted 07 July 2012 - 10:34 PM
I fully understand that men and women are on different levels and in different places with different missions. But now I feel a twinge of jealousy that men are able to give HaShem that nachas that He loves! So when I learn chumash, does it please HaShem the same as it does when my brother learns a word of tosfos? or is it not even comparable?
#6
Rabbi Shapiro
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Posted 07 July 2012 - 11:24 PM
Don't be jealous. You can give Hashem that Nachas, too. But not through learning Chumash. You get reward for that, but not the same type of reward that a man gets, because you are not commanded to learn that Chumash. גדול המצווה ועושה.
The Gemora explains how women can get the merit of Torah:
The Gemora explains how women can get the merit of Torah:
By assisting and being there for your husband and sons when they go to learn, you merit the reward of Torah just as they do.תלמוד בבלי מסכת ברכות דף יז/א
נשים במאי זכיין? באקרויי בנייהו לבי כנישתא ובאתנויי גברייהו בי רבנן ונטרין לגברייהו עד דאתו מבי רבנ
#8
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Posted 09 July 2012 - 06:17 AM
That's like asking how a woman can be an Akeres HaBayis before she has a Bayis. Or like how a woman can be an Ezer Kenegdo without anyone for her to be Keneged. She can't.
If a woman is an adult and single she can support Torah learning through Tzedakah.
If a woman is an adult and single she can support Torah learning through Tzedakah.
#9
rocksdontfly
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Posted 10 July 2012 - 05:29 PM
Thats a little disconcerting 
I'm looking forward to encouraging my husbands and sons learning. At this point in my life, and even later, is there anything I can do myself? Besides for being there? Just being there for them to give HaShem nachas feels-weird, and not good enough
I'm looking forward to encouraging my husbands and sons learning. At this point in my life, and even later, is there anything I can do myself? Besides for being there? Just being there for them to give HaShem nachas feels-weird, and not good enough
#10
Rabbi Shapiro
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Posted 11 July 2012 - 07:19 AM
Thats a little disconcerting
I'm not sure what the question is.
Obviously, "being there" does not mean merely physically being present, and "encouraging" doesn't just mean telling them what to do (actually it doesn't mean that at all). I don't need to explain that the role women play in the Jewish home is paramount. All that you are hearing here is that not only do you merit being an עקרת הבית, but you also merit the reward of Talmud Torah.
Nor do I need to explain that being an עקרת הבית is no small task. It takes a tremendous amount of energy, time, effort, discipline, willpower, and creativity to properly administer a משכן, making sure it is a comfortable dwelling place for the Shechinah as well as a Jewish family.
Hashem created Chava for one purpose - to be an עזר כנגדו. And you can't be an עזר כנגדו without someone to be כנגד (no joke intended). But there's more. The reason Adam needed an עזר כנגדו is because לא טוב היות אדם לבדו. Now everything Hashem does is good. If Hashem created something and declared it "not good" that can only mean one thing: It was not finished being created yet. Adam was not finished until after Chava was created. The husband and wife are a unit. Each performs their function, and the whole receives the reward.
Hashem gives each of us specific, tailor-made purposes. He told you what yours is through Nevuah. That is, the Nevuah of Moshe Rabbeinu, who He used to send you His message. It said: לא טוב היות אדם לבדו אעשה לו עזר כנגדו. Some jobs need preparation. If Hashem would tell someone his job in this world is to be a doctor, he'd have to go to medical school to prepare for his Tachlis.
"But Hashem," he would say. "At this point in my life is there anything I can do?"
"Yes," Hashem would say. "You should prepare for the Tachlis I gave you."
Not only does Hashem give us the job He knows is best for us, He also gives it to us at the time He knows is best for us. Hashem could have made women born as Kallahs. Instead, He wanted them to prepare for their monumental task, by learning, growing, and understanding. That's their "medical school."
So the answer to your question is yes, there is plenty that you can do in the meantime. You have a monumental Tachlis ahead of you. Now is the time to prepare for it.
#13
dotherightthing
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Posted 12 July 2012 - 01:52 PM
i read things like this and i think- how can i NOT marry someone who learns?! THIS is the purpose of olam hazaeh, this is what i need to do to get close to Hashem.
but practically..... idk if it will work out. if i get married early while I'm still in college and he's learning and my parents don't have the money to support me HOW CAN THAT WORK? i do trust that everything is for Hashem but this is a pretty basic question that my mother asked me and i have no idea wat to answer!!!!!!!!!!!!
but practically..... idk if it will work out. if i get married early while I'm still in college and he's learning and my parents don't have the money to support me HOW CAN THAT WORK? i do trust that everything is for Hashem but this is a pretty basic question that my mother asked me and i have no idea wat to answer!!!!!!!!!!!!
#15
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Posted 07 August 2012 - 01:39 PM
May I make a suggestion: Why don't you approach Kollel couples who are in more or less the same position as you and ask them how they do it?
If you wanted to know what it's like to live in a trailer home, for example, you'd ask people that do it. Same here. Speak to a number of them, who have been in Kollel for different lengths of time.
If you wanted to know what it's like to live in a trailer home, for example, you'd ask people that do it. Same here. Speak to a number of them, who have been in Kollel for different lengths of time.
#17
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Posted 24 March 2013 - 12:35 PM
in light of the supremacy of talmud torah, what is the meaning of "gadol halimud sh'mavi ledei maaseh" which implies torah is only a means to maaseh & that maaseh is greater?
The Rishonim ask this on the spot. Also see Rashi and Tosfos on BK 17a and Ritva Kiddushin 40b.
#18
JewishAttorney
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Posted 28 March 2013 - 08:27 AM
The reason why we learn is not because it is an obligation - if that were so, you'd be right. We could discharge our obligation with a bit of learning in the day and another bit in the night. We learn because it is an opportunity, because becoming a Talmid Chacham - and by that I mean the biggest Talmid Chacham you can possibly be - is the best thing you can do for yourself, your family, and the world. There is no obligation for a person to make a billion dollars. But if he could, he would. Learning more is is spiritually making more. A lot more. This is something I wrote about about this topic many years ago:
The overwhelmingly most important advantage of learning full time is that you are learning more than if you learn not to full time. Simple as that. Torah learning is the highest, greatest, most glorious form of avodas Hashem, which will get for you the greatest share in Olam Habah possible, much much more and much much greater than any other thing you can do for Hashem, including any other type of Mitzvos. Learning Torah brings by far the greatest Nachas to Hashem, the greatest benefits to Klall yisroel, and the greatest benefits to those who do the learning, than anything else you can possibly do.
Hands down, no contest.
That's why we learn.
As an example: A man once came to the Chazon Ish asking him advice. he got 2 job offers, and he wants to know which to take. The first is Kashrus administrator of the rabbanut, a position in which he is confident that he would be able to chnage the kashrus standards in all of eretz yisroel, causing the public to eat only kosher food. If he does not take this job, they will hire someone who does not have his standards and the public who rely on this hesher will not eat kosher (note: I do not know what the issues with the hechsher were, or how severe). His other choice is to be a rebbi in a yeshiva. If he does not take that job, the Yeshiva will hire a different ben torah, on the same level as him, so its not as if the kids are going to be less frum.
Which job should he take, he asked.
The Chazon Ish asked him, "Do you think, if you take the job as a Rebbi, that you could perhaps convince 2 of your students to learn during a Bain Hazemanim?"
"Yes," he said. "Ithink I can do that."
"Then you should know," said the Chazon Ish, "that two kids learning Torah bain hazemanim as if it were the zman, is much more valuable to Hashem than making the entire Eretz Yisroel eat kosher!"
This is the kind of material that boys are taught in yeshiva. This is the main motivation for learning in Kollel.
The situation these days in Eretz Yisroel is terrible. We need to help our brothers there. What can we do - spiritually, I am talking about now - to help?
Well, the Chazon Ish said that learning one single Tosfos has the power to nullify many evil decrees on Klall Yisroel."
It can take any where from a few minutes to much longer to learn a Tosfos. One single Tosfos -- perhaps a few minutes of Torah learning - can nullify many Gezeiros against Klall Yisroel.
We say it every day: Talmud Torah Kneged Kulam. This means, say Chazal, that learning one word of Torah - one! word! - imparts more holiness than a lifetime of doing Mitzvos!
The Vilna Gaon comments: So when somoene learns just one page of gemora, he covers hundreds of words, each of which gives him more Kedusha than a lifetime of doing Mitzvos.
In Yeshiva, they teach this, that Torah learning - as opposed to any othe form of Avodas Hashem - is by far, by very, very far, the highest and greatest act of Avodah that a person can be invovled in, and through it, one merits by far, by very very far, the greatest measure of Olam Habah; and through it, one releases, by far, by very very far, the very greatest measure of Hashem's influence and Goodness into this world.
Nothing compares. Nothing comes close. Not Kiruv, not Tzedakah, not Hatzalah, nothing.
Please note, that all those other endeavors - the Mitzvah ones - are glorious and wonderful forms of Avodas hashem. But Torah learning is a billion times greater.
All this applies to the act of learning, even if it is done by someone who is not a Talmid Chacham.
But the Talmid Chacham, even if he does not teach, even if he does not preach, is, more than anything else, the one most valuable thing to Hashem in this world. And no wonder. If one world of Torah learning can bring more kedusha into this woprld than a lifetime of anything else, then the very existence of the Talmid Chacham is a conduit of holiness and Hashem's Influence into this world. The very presence of the Talmid Chacham benefits our world in ways that nothgin else can.
As Rav Hutner ZTL used to point out - every utensil in the Bais HaMikdash had some kind of avodah done with it. Except the Aron. The Aron did nothgin but exist. The Aron represents the talmid chachm, the container of the Torah. it does not need to do any act. Its very presence is its success.
(Of course, this does not mean that a Talmid Chacham does not have to fulfill the Mitzvos. Doing Mitzvos is part of being a Talmid Chacham, because if someone does not Do what he learns, then obviously his learning is not meant seriously, and is not real learning.)
But a Talmid Chacham does not have to be "employed." The Vilna Gaon had no "job." He was not the local rabbi, Rosh Yeshiva, or anything. He was like the Aron Kodesh. In our days, the Chazon Ish, the Steipler, and yibd"l Rav Chaim Kanievsky had/have no "jobs". Each are an Aron HaKodesh.
Rav Ahron Kotler ZTL said in his hesped of the Chazon Ish, that the reason the Chazon Ish was bigger than him, was because the Chazon Ish had no yeshiva to run; he had nothing in his life except Torah.
The goal of becoming a Talmid Chacham is so, so, so desirable, that everyone is encouraged to pursue it. If you can’t, or won’t, for whatever reason, nobody here is judging you. But no question -- if our goal in this world is to bring Nachas Ruach to Hashem / to accumulate merits for Olam Habah / to sanctify the world / etc etc -- becoming a Talmid Chacham is by far the best way to go.
But even if you are not going to be a Talmid Chacham, being the closest you can become, is also the most desirable and glorious and highest goal for you. Learning itself is the greatest act of Avodas Hashem that can be performed in the world.
One more important point: Contrary to the belief of many, it is impossible to predict who will become a Talmid Chacham. As the Chazon Ish said, "Every student is a possible godol hador". The Roshei Yeshiva of today were not all the ones who people thought would become the Roshei Yeshiva of today. And vice versa. Talent and intellect help, to be sure, but effort and siyata dishmaya are more important to success as a Torah scholar. Becoming a "godol" is not just for the brightest. In fact, often it is not they who attain that goal. An average student, and it has happened that also below average students, have become great Gedolim and surpassed their more talented peers.
Not everybody can become the greatest Talmid Chacham in the world. But everybody can become as close to the greatest Talmid chacham in the world that he can. Those Bnei Torah, the ones who pour their heart and soul and life into learning Hashem's Torah, merit, every single one of them, the greatest share in Olam Habah possible.
That is the main reason people learn in Kollel. Because Talmud Torah Kneged Kulam.
There are tons more good reasons --- like the effect it has on your home, on your Mitzvah performance, on your personality, on your children --- all of which are excellent reasons. But the main reason is, that our goal in this world is to go higher and higher. And there is no better way to go higher than to learn.
Nothing even close.
Wow, I somehow just read this even though it has been posted for almost a year.
Rav Shapiro, I know you eloquently explained the issue of learning vs working to me in the thread discussing the Satmar Rav's discussion with the Chazon Ish about it and their respective views on thw subject, so I don't mean to open a can of worms or play silly games or play with words but I'd like to ask this: shouldn't overall, in light of what you had written in this quoted post mean that Chazon Ish probably had a better view on the subject?
I mean, I am a young attorney who is dating and not a Chossid and I get to deal with people who consider (as it should be, despite being uncomfortable to hear) guys to be superior for their girls than someone like me and in circles of people who follow Satmar Rav, working is almost expected. At the same time, they "get away" with working and (to use a contemporary term) being cool with it. I can also say that I am working to support myself and my future family and be independent from non Jewish sources but if I say it, I get slammed with the "infinite holiness of learning" speech similar to your quote above and my chassidic friends do not. How is that normal?
#19
Rabbi Shapiro
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Posted 29 March 2013 - 05:41 PM
Because every Godol in Klall Yisroel - and every individual as well - needs to do not only what i best for him as an individual but also what is best for the community at large. How to balance your personal benefit and sacrifice for the community is a complex issue and that is the core of the different approaches here.
The Chazon Ish and the Satmar Rebbe were both great Manhigim, but they operated in different contexts. The Chazon Ish had no yeshiva, no Shul, no Rebistiva, not formal leadership position at all. But he was the world's expert and leader from his shtender. The Satmar Rebbe was Rebbe, Rav, and Rosh Yeshiva for the largest Torah community in the world. They were leading from two different angles.
And therefore, nobody is disagreeing with the Chazon Ish that Torah is the greatest pursuit. The Satmar Rebbe had an opportunity to create an entire Torah community - Rabbonim, Roshei Yeshiva, Baalei Batim, Shochtim, etc etc - an entire Jewish lifestyle, everyone playing their Torah role in tandem, a community whose existence will influence, in the long term, the very standards of frumkeit of the entire Orthodox world.
he Satmar Rebbe held that that was his better choice. Advising everyone to learn on Kollel would cause that endeavor to fail.
The Chazon Ish was not in that position. Although entire communities followed the Chazon Ish, it was as individuals, not as a total community together.
Everyone agrees that תלמוד תורה כנגד כולם. In Satmar, everyone is free to pursue that goal if they choose, but there will also be efforts put into other goals important for Klall Yisroel, because they are dealing with an entire kingdom of people in Satmar.
There was no Machlokes here. Merely different strokes for different folks.
#20
forever613
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Posted 09 June 2013 - 08:57 PM
1. Is supporting kollel just as great as being in kollel?
2. If Tznius is for a girl as learning Torah is for a boy, does a girl achieve the highest level possible by working on tznius?
3. Is learning in kollel/ being a kollel wife for everyone? If not, how would I know if its best for me?
4. What if I just don’t feel as though I’m on that level to have a kollel lifestyle, appreciate it, and follow through?
5. is teaching torah just as great as learning since you are the conduit through which others are learning
