i guess this is a pretty classic problem.
i have one older brother who is 27 and married with a kid then i have an sister who is 21- two years older than me and starting her third year of college.
i am 19 i just got back from seminary. i feel like i am ready to date. but i love my sister so much- more than myself and i wud never want to get married before her. on the other hand i really really really want to date and get married (not bcz of the fun of dating, bcz i want so badly to start a true home of torah) wat should i do? should i approach her and ask her if she wud mind if i started dating? she will probably say no but id feel guilty anyways.
i should probably add that we have a very good relationship- she is one of the most amazing kindest smartest people i no but she is very introverted and shy so its hard for her to open up. i am more outgoing and popular and i don't want her chas vshalom in any way to feel like pressure or jealous if we r dating at the same time. please help bcz this is an awkward, important situation and i don't know what to do!
Older Sister
Started by
dotherightthing
, Jul 12 2012 01:28 PM
9 replies to this topic
#2
Rabbi Shapiro
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Posted 18 July 2012 - 02:09 PM
I recommend you start dating. Nowadays it is wise not to indefinitely postpone getting a Shiduch.
And I think your sister would probably be more upset if she knew you could have been married to a good Shiduch but you aren't because she's not married.
But you should not be the one to talk to her about it. Let your parents do it. You can talk to her afterwards if you want, but let them be the ones to explain the situation to her.
And I think your sister would probably be more upset if she knew you could have been married to a good Shiduch but you aren't because she's not married.
But you should not be the one to talk to her about it. Let your parents do it. You can talk to her afterwards if you want, but let them be the ones to explain the situation to her.
#3
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Posted 18 July 2012 - 04:07 PM
I was in a similar position to you, except that my sister was nearly six years my senior, and I wasn't ready to start dating the minute I got back from seminary. I heard more than once from both my parents and my sister not to wait - that I should not put my life on hold just because my sister wasn't married yet, even though it might be hard for everyone involved if I did end up getting married first. I spoke to a few Rabbanim, Rebbetzins, and teachers who I look up to about it, because I was extremely uncomfortable with the idea. These are some of the things that I was told:
-- Would your parents and/or sister be happy in twenty years from now (chas v'shalom) when you're both not married and in your 40s? (The Rav who told me this knows of more than one case like this; that the younger sister insisted on waiting...and waiting...and waiting...)
-- You don't want to jeapordize your own shidduch prospects either. (A teacher of mine in HS used to say "everyone believes that Hashem is in control until it comes to seminary and shidduchim" - I don't mean to be unreasonable, in terms of trying to be "perfect" and act or become a person you are not.) I was given a certain age by a Rebbetzin that I was "allowed" to wait until, because once you, yourself reach a certain point, people start to wonder and talk why you aren't dating yet. Or shadchanim and acquaintances simply forget about you - not on purpose, but since you haven't been dating for so long, you sort of fade into the subconcious. (I know that it's a different situation for you and me, if only because you feel that you are ready and interested in starting to date; I didn't, even at that point. The conversations I was having were a lot in the theoretical realm.)
-- You have no idea what Hashem's plan is in Shamayim. What if she was not destined to get married before you, her younger sister? What if, as part of her life-plan, one of the nisyonos that she has to go through is to see her younger sister get married first? (Or, at least start dating first, thus opening the possibility.) By you refusing to date until she gets married, you are actually holding up the process of her doing so!
-- Just to add one point of my own which is of no practical value to the question you asked, just in general: Be infinitely grateful that you have a good relationship with your sister, and that you are able to be somewhat confident that she won't mind. I did, and from what you wrote, it sounds like you do. You didn't write anything about your parents' opinion on the matter, but I hope, and give you a bracha, that it should be the same. I know of a few families where the older sister and the younger sister are both such wonderful girls, but this really gets in the way of their relationship, and has almost become an unapproachable subject. It's unfortunate. Whatever you do, I know I don't have to say this, just be tactfully (!) sensitive, and cherish the fact that you have that. Not everybody does.
-- Also, JewsWithQuestions is great, and with all due respect to Rabbi Shapiro (which is a lot!), I would highly advise asking your own personal shaila to a Rav who knows your family, or just discussing it with someone who you know and look up to and trust. They will know you, your family, your situation, and how to best advise you and help you feel at least semi-comfortable with your decision.
Hatzlacha rabba - anyone who's been in your position knows how tough it is! Hashem should give you the koach and the clarity to find the right thing to do.
-- Would your parents and/or sister be happy in twenty years from now (chas v'shalom) when you're both not married and in your 40s? (The Rav who told me this knows of more than one case like this; that the younger sister insisted on waiting...and waiting...and waiting...)
-- You don't want to jeapordize your own shidduch prospects either. (A teacher of mine in HS used to say "everyone believes that Hashem is in control until it comes to seminary and shidduchim" - I don't mean to be unreasonable, in terms of trying to be "perfect" and act or become a person you are not.) I was given a certain age by a Rebbetzin that I was "allowed" to wait until, because once you, yourself reach a certain point, people start to wonder and talk why you aren't dating yet. Or shadchanim and acquaintances simply forget about you - not on purpose, but since you haven't been dating for so long, you sort of fade into the subconcious. (I know that it's a different situation for you and me, if only because you feel that you are ready and interested in starting to date; I didn't, even at that point. The conversations I was having were a lot in the theoretical realm.)
-- You have no idea what Hashem's plan is in Shamayim. What if she was not destined to get married before you, her younger sister? What if, as part of her life-plan, one of the nisyonos that she has to go through is to see her younger sister get married first? (Or, at least start dating first, thus opening the possibility.) By you refusing to date until she gets married, you are actually holding up the process of her doing so!
-- Just to add one point of my own which is of no practical value to the question you asked, just in general: Be infinitely grateful that you have a good relationship with your sister, and that you are able to be somewhat confident that she won't mind. I did, and from what you wrote, it sounds like you do. You didn't write anything about your parents' opinion on the matter, but I hope, and give you a bracha, that it should be the same. I know of a few families where the older sister and the younger sister are both such wonderful girls, but this really gets in the way of their relationship, and has almost become an unapproachable subject. It's unfortunate. Whatever you do, I know I don't have to say this, just be tactfully (!) sensitive, and cherish the fact that you have that. Not everybody does.
-- Also, JewsWithQuestions is great, and with all due respect to Rabbi Shapiro (which is a lot!), I would highly advise asking your own personal shaila to a Rav who knows your family, or just discussing it with someone who you know and look up to and trust. They will know you, your family, your situation, and how to best advise you and help you feel at least semi-comfortable with your decision.
Hatzlacha rabba - anyone who's been in your position knows how tough it is! Hashem should give you the koach and the clarity to find the right thing to do.
#4
shifpifer1
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Posted 18 July 2012 - 04:40 PM
Obviously you should listen to Rabbi Shapiro, I just wanted to add a point.
Well, your sister might not be dating because she is in college and pursuing a career. She's not dating b/c she is an introvert. And not opening up is not an introverted quality.
You want to date because you want a family and build a home. She isnt dating yet for whatever reason, but the point is she's not dating yet! So dont worry if you think your ready you probably are.
Well, your sister might not be dating because she is in college and pursuing a career. She's not dating b/c she is an introvert. And not opening up is not an introverted quality.
You want to date because you want a family and build a home. She isnt dating yet for whatever reason, but the point is she's not dating yet! So dont worry if you think your ready you probably are.
#6
dotherightthing
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Posted 18 July 2012 - 09:17 PM
wow thanks everyone for the amazing well thought-out answers. its like so incredible to me that you are all taking time out of your schedules to answer and help me with this issue. so thanks! yet- what u said was simply amazing!!
just to clarify- my sister IS dating already. also i spoke to my parents about it- they have no problem with me starting to date before my sister is married. they're just not so affiliated with the whole shidduch scene so they still think i should like take time to adjust in college and maybe get a job before i start dating. however I'm a firm believer in what almost every seminary teacher says- if a good shidduch prospect comes up- TAKE THE OPPURTUNITY! don't say no on the basis that ur not "ready" to start dating,(unless of course u have real emotional/mental/health problems to take care of before ur ready to date.) rabbi shapiro- should i really tell my parents to talk to her about it? wouldn't she rather hear it from me to make it less taboo and awkward???
just to clarify- my sister IS dating already. also i spoke to my parents about it- they have no problem with me starting to date before my sister is married. they're just not so affiliated with the whole shidduch scene so they still think i should like take time to adjust in college and maybe get a job before i start dating. however I'm a firm believer in what almost every seminary teacher says- if a good shidduch prospect comes up- TAKE THE OPPURTUNITY! don't say no on the basis that ur not "ready" to start dating,(unless of course u have real emotional/mental/health problems to take care of before ur ready to date.) rabbi shapiro- should i really tell my parents to talk to her about it? wouldn't she rather hear it from me to make it less taboo and awkward???
#7
Rabbi Shapiro
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Posted 19 July 2012 - 10:00 AM
You know her better than I do. If you think she'd rather hear it from you then by all means you should tell her.rabbi shapiro- should i really tell my parents to talk to her about it? wouldn't she rather hear it from me to make it less taboo and awkward???
ספר רוח חיים על אבות - פרק ב משנה ז
מרבה עצה מרבה תבונה. מרגלא בפומיה דאינשי שאל עצה ועשה כשכלך. ולפי זה לכאורה עצה למה. אך יובן פשוט כי איש מבחוץ לא יבין כל פנימיות הענין במה שנועצים אתו רק יבין מעט וכן היועץ השני. רק הנועץ בעצמו הוא מבין לגמרי כל פנימיות הענין אבל חסר לו שכל ותבונה של כולם. על כן בהקבץ אצלו עצת כולם ושכל של כל אחד ואחד בזה אז יבין איך ומה לבחור עצה אחת משותפת מכל העצות יחד מזה מעט ומזה מעט. וכמו שכתוב (משלי יא, יד), ותשועה ברוב יועץ וזהו מרבה עצה על ידי כך מרבה תבונה שכל של כל איש ותבין דבר מתוך דבר מעצמך. ועליהם עוד תוסיף להשכיל:
#8
Rabbi Shapiro
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Posted 20 July 2012 - 11:45 AM
Probably. And others as well. But the Satmar Rebbe was also against Shaitlach and spoke out against them, yet when he addressed certain Kehillos in Satmar (not his Chasidim) he openly instructed them to wear Shaitlach, because for those Kehillos it was a step up. It all depends who you're talking to.Rav Shapiro:
Wasn't the Satmer Rebbe zt'l very makpid that older siblings should marry first? (Even an older brother before a close in age sister.)
So yes, there is no question there are reasons for an older sibling to get married before a younger one. But if we're talking to people who live in a world where waiting for an older sibling to get married may mean postponing the dating process perhaps for years, and where girls have a difficult enough time finding the right Zivug as it is even without purposely passing up who knows how many Shiduch suggestions, I think there are much stronger reasons not to wait than to wait.
#10
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Posted 05 August 2012 - 05:29 PM
1) Because a person has to be zocheh to get his right zivug,If Hashem ordains a person's zivug before a person is even born, why is it so hard to find the zivug? are people being too picky when it comes to choosing, or are they passing opportunities?
2) Because a person has to look for the proper things in a spouse,
3) Because a person has to know who he is in order to know who his zivug is,
4) Because people are sometimes too picky and passing up opportunities.
