16 replies to this topic

[FS613]

L'Chvod Rabbi Shapiro, Shlita:

Why is it that there are so many videos by Rabbonim (especially around Tisha B'Av), about the Mitzva of Shmiras HaLoshon;

and none about the Mitzva of Tznius, the lack of which is so disastrous to the Jews, especially in today's times?

Please understand that I am not C"V denigrating the Mitzva of Shmiras HaLoshon, or any Mitzva.

Every letter of the Torah is Emes and from Hashem.

Thank you.

[Rabbi Shapiro]

They don't talk about it because people don't want to hear about it. (I'm not saying they shouldn't talk about it but that's the reason.)

[danceInTheRain]

also, around tishaa baav time we are trying to work on issues that pertain to sinaas chinam and ben adam lechavero because that is why the bais hamikdash was destroyed in the first place so that is why there are many speaches about shmiras halashon during that time

[Menorah]

They don't talk about it because people don't want to hear about it. (I'm not saying they shouldn't talk about it but that's the reason.)

Is that a legitimate reason for them to not talk about it? Or should they talk about it even though people don't want to hear about it -- perhaps, especially, talk about it because people don't want to hear it?

[Rabbi Shapiro]

People need to hear about what's important, and what's pertinent. If many people don't want to hear about it they can leave the hearing to those who do want to hear and will gain by it. By avoiding important lessons because you will attract a bigger crowd if you do so, you are (a) hurting those that would be willing to learn the important lessons - and those people should be given priority regarding what we talk about - and (b.) you are sending an implicit message that those important lessons are not really important enough to be spoken about.

Topics for teaching the public should be chosen primarily by what the public needs to hear. The Halachah of not saying something that will not be accepted applies when you are talking to an individual. When talking to the public, we do not refrain from saying what they need to hear because more people would rather hear something else. If there could be people among the crowd that will benefit, you should talk. אם לפניך גלוי להם מי גלוי

[Ellie]

Um, what makes you think nobody talks about Tznius?
All I ever seem to hear are speeches about Tznius.

[FS613]

In my experience, it just seems that there are some speeches about Tznius,

but not as many speeches and videos and DVD's about Tznius, as there are about Shmiras HaLoshon.

Also, from what I can see, the speeches about Tznius don't seem to be having enough of an impact.

[Menorah]

I agree. There is much to few speeches and reminders about tznius. We should take an example from all the Shmiras Loshon speeches, articles, seforim/books, etc. and emulate that regarding tznius.

[FS613]

L'Chvod Rabbi Shapiro, Shlita:

 

If a Jewish organization sponsors a "run" for Tzidaka, with separate men's and women's races;

 

is it allowed for women to run in public for this purpose?

 

Thank you.

[emoticon]

I am sure that R' Shapiro will have what to say about this when he sees this, but for now -

What is the question? Essentially, you are asking if we can violate the הלכות and spirit of צניעות for צדקה.

Why would it even occur to you that it may be permissible? Why would you think that we can disregard הלכה for the sake of צדקה?

[danceInTheRain]

I guess the proper question would be. 

may women run in public?

[Rabbi Shapiro]

I guess the proper question would be. 

may women run in public?

 

The answer to that is of course no - it's not Tzniusdik, but the situation being asked about here is worse than that.

 

The idea is that women are not supposed to do anything that attracts extra attention. Running down the street certainly would make them more conspicuous than they need to be. But running for Tzedaka is worse.

 

Not only are we talking about a "woman running down the street," and not only are we talking about a large group of women running down the street together, which of course is even more attention-drawing, but we are talking about behavior that is designed specifically to attract the most attention possible,

 

The purpose of these runs is to attract as much attention from the public as they can - that's how they raise the money. The more people see them, the more successful their run. If nobody would see them running, they would have no purpose in making the event!

 

So you're talking about a group of dozens of women who are not only publicly making a scene. You are talking about a group of dozens of women who are making a scene with the express intent and goal to attract attention to themselves - the more attention the better.

 

The question here is not whether a woman can run in public, but can a woman run in public intending to attract attention to the fact that she is doing so? And not only intending to attract attention, but the only purpose of her running is to attract attention (it's not like the runners have to get anywhere fast) to her running.

 

The answer is definitely not.

[danceInTheRain]

I go running every day for xersize. Usually its in a more quite street. I always wear very wide skirts that are long enough and shoes that don't make tons of noise. In addition I sometimes run just becuase I want to get places faster. I hate walking. its soo slow...

Is that a problem? I never even thought it would be an issue as long as I remain properly covered

[FS613]

I am sure that R' Shapiro will have what to say about this when he sees this, but for now -

What is the question? Essentially, you are asking if we can violate the הלכות and spirit of צניעות for צדקה.

Why would it even occur to you that it may be permissible? Why would you think that we can disregard הלכה for the sake of צדקה?

 

On the contrary -- I'm glad to hear that Rabbi Shapiro, Shlita, is confirming what I believe to be true:

 

that women running in public is a violation of the laws of Tznius of the Torah.

 

I realize now that I didn't make that clear in my post.

 

That's why I wonder why there are Jewish organizations which allow women to run in public for Tzidaka. I don't understand why they do this.

 

Doesn't Hashem say in the Torah, "V'lo Yayraeh Erva B'Machanecha, V'Shav Mayacharecha,"

 

(or something like that; sorry, I don't have the exact quote) --

 

that if Hashem sees immodesty in our camp, He turns away from us, and we lose His protection against Tzaros?

[emoticon]

That would be in ספר דברים, פרק כג פסוק טו:

ולא יראה בך ערות דבר ושב מאחריך.

[emoticon]

danceInTheRain-

Running in public attracts attention. I'm sure the fact that you are properly covered is better than if you חלילה would not be, but it's not just about the clothes. The very act of running is attracting, and altogether not befitting for a woman.

[FS613]

Doesn't Hashem say in the Torah, "V'lo Yayraeh Erva B'Machanecha, V'Shav Mayacharecha,"

 

(or something like that; sorry, I don't have the exact quote) --

 

that if Hashem sees immodesty in our camp, He turns away from us, and we lose His protection against Tzaros?

 

That would be in ספר דברים, פרק כג פסוק טו:

ולא יראה בך ערות דבר ושב מאחריך.

 

Thank you. I couldn't remember the exact wording of the פסוק or its source.

 

Right before that, in the same פסוק, it says: והיה מחניך קדוש

 

I just quoted the words out-of-order, above.

 

"And your camp shall be holy, and He (Hashem) will not see among you Immodesty and turn away from you."