5 replies to this topic

[Chaim613]

Which of the Breslov sefarim are "mainstream" meaning learned by everyone or at least footnoted in sefarim? I ask this, with the assumption that the Na Nachers have published there own books, etc.... (that may be a bad assumption)

I know Likkutei Halachos of R' Nosson..... but what else?

thank you

[Rabbi Shapiro]

There are many. Off hand (from both Rav Nachman and R. Nosson): ליקוטי מוהר"ן, ליקוטי עצות, ליקוטי תפילות, שבחי מוהר"ן, שיחות הר"ן, השתפכות הנפש, משיבת נפש, סיפורי מעשיות, ספר המדות, and more. These are all basic and classic. They cover different topics (for example, ליקוטי תפילות are Tefilos that were made from Rav Nachman's Torahs; סיפורי מעשיות are stories, etc.)

A few thing though. Before you get involved with Breslover seforim, you should know:

1) Not everything in Chasidishe seforim was meant for everyone. It was meant for the specific Talmidim of the Rebbes whose Torahs were recorded in the Sefer. This is true to an extent regarding all chasidishe seforim, but all the more so with Breslov seforim, since they provide a lot of practical guidance and advice, as opposed to just Divrei Torah In other words, don't just think that the approach that you will see will be good for you, or even intended by Rav Nachman for you in the first place. See here, here, here (10/26/11), here and here. Rav Nachman dispensed invaluable medicine. Before you take it, you need to know that it was prescribed for your problem. The following is guidance from the Baal Shem Tov. Note, especially, the last line:

ספר בעל שם טוב על התורה - פרשת בראשית: כי יש מעשה הרשעים, אכילה ושתייה ושמחה ושחוק וכיוצא, ויש מעשה הצדיקים תענית וצום ובכי ומספד וכיוצא, אמנם כשנתגברה חולי המרה שחמה על ידי עצבות וסיגופים וכיוצא, אז צריך לאחוז במדות הרשעים, לאכול ולשתות ולשמוח להסיר החולי הנ"ל, ולפעמים כשרואה שיצר הרע מתגבר בו, ילבש שחורים ועצבות (קדושין ד"מ ע"א) וכל זה צריך לשקול במאזני שכלו...

2) You should not learn Breslov seforim alone, but rather in conjunction with other Chasidishe seforim, in order to get a balanced perspective of the material (that instruction comes from the Satmar Rebbe ZTL, who held of Rav Nachman עולם ומלואו).

3) I don't think the Na-Nachers actually put out any seforim (what could be in them anyway?) but there are many other books out there that claim to be "based on" Breslov teachings that you should stay away from. Remember - Breslov has no current Rebbe, no living central authority, and so anyone can lay claim to the Breslov derech. There are people out there who mix new-age Ouija-board firewalking Chi Prana "spirituality" stuff with some (often totally misunderstood) Torahs from Rav Nachman and then call it "Breslov." These books crammed with nonsense and sometimes even Avodah Zorah. Stay away from all such books (even if they were on the NY Times Best Seller List).

4) The one most important point (out of which all of the above derive), is that Breslov, like all Hashkafic teachings (but even more so Breslov) was never designed to be a stand-alone approach to Hashkafa. The teachings are to be taken in context of Shas and Poskim and the entire body of Torah. If your Breslov teachings look to be at odds with - or even different than - than those of Rava and Abaye, you've taken a wrong turn somewhere. Breslov is like salt and pepper. They can make a tasteless recipe delicious, but if those are the only ingredients you're using, you're going to end up with some nasty dinner. If you don't have a strong background in Torah Hashkafa, you will not understand Breslov. Worse yet - you will misunderstand it.

If you're not solidly tethered to terra firma you can end up uncontrollably adrift in outer space with no way to get back to earth.

[danceInTheRain]

. Remember - Breslov has no current Rebbe, no living central authority, and so anyone can lay claim to the Breslov derech.

I probably misunderstood whatever you were trying to say but there is something I do not understand.
I was once in tzfat for a shabbos and I was by a friend she showed me around a couple shuls. Of course there were many "not serious"places with the girls singing out loud and all that. but she also showed me a breslev shul that was tottaly serious! nobody up in the clouds, and all that. Basically looking like any other chasidish shul. the breslev comunitty there is a thriving jewish one and it did not look like they were following some nobody. These people would define themselves as breslev but not Nach Nach. is there still something wrong with their derech?

[Chaim613]

I am aware of the care and balance needed for learning the chassidishe seforim, and I appreciate your shiurim on the topic.

An aquaintence of mine used to be a Na Nacher when he first became frum, and then "normal-ed out". Anyway he had a ton of doubles in his collection of seforim and gave be a whole bunch. All of the seforim that you mentioned were in there, so I know that those are appropriate to refer to. I am not planning on getting "into" the seforim, but would like to look up things when brought down in other things that I may be learning.

2 follow up questions regarding some of the other seforim that it is in there:

1- Hashtapchus hanefesh, Chayay Maharan, Kisvei R' Nachman, and a 5 book set called "Otzar Hayirah".......are these considered "mainstream" ?
2- The reason of my concern is that the publishing house that these books are printed from is the "Keren R' Yisroel Odesser" and has "Na Nach" or "Tukad Ad Bias Moshiach" on the covers. I just want to make sure that I am differentiating properly between classic Breslov books and "new ideologies".......Is there any problem with this publishing house?

thank you very much.

[Rabbi Shapiro]

I probably misunderstood whatever you were trying to say but there is something I do not understand.
I was once in tzfat for a shabbos and I was by a friend she showed me around a couple shuls. Of course there were many "not serious"places with the girls singing out loud and all that. but she also showed me a breslev shul that was tottaly serious! nobody up in the clouds, and all that. Basically looking like any other chasidish shul. the breslev comunitty there is a thriving jewish one and it did not look like they were following some nobody. These people would define themselves as breslev but not Nach Nach. is there still something wrong with their derech?

Not necessarily. Not at all. Even with no live Rebbe and no central authority, one can still follow Breslov as a valid Derech. But it is much easier to distort it than other Derachim. Just because there are crazy people claiming to be Breslov it does not chas v'sholom mean everyone claiming to be Breslov is crazy.

[Rabbi Shapiro]

I am aware of the care and balance needed for learning the chassidishe seforim, and I appreciate your shiurim on the topic.

An aquaintence of mine used to be a Na Nacher when he first became frum, and then "normal-ed out". Anyway he had a ton of doubles in his collection of seforim and gave be a whole bunch. All of the seforim that you mentioned were in there, so I know that those are appropriate to refer to. I am not planning on getting "into" the seforim, but would like to look up things when brought down in other things that I may be learning.

2 follow up questions regarding some of the other seforim that it is in there:

 

1- Hashtapchus hanefesh, Chayay Maharan, Kisvei R' Nachman, and a 5 book set called "Otzar Hayirah".......are these considered "mainstream" ?
2- The reason of my concern is that the publishing house that these books are printed from is the "Keren R' Yisroel Odesser" and has "Na Nach" or "Tukad Ad Bias Moshiach" on the covers. I just want to make sure that I am differentiating properly between classic Breslov books and "new ideologies".......Is there any problem with this publishing house?

.

 

1 -  השתפכות הנפש and חיי מוהר"ן are classics; אוצר היראה is a collection of Breslov writings, which is old, established and mainstream. Kisvei Rav Nachman is a new thing, and I don't know anything about its contents.

 

2- The Keren R. Yisroel Odesser is a good publishing house, and they print nice Breslov Seforim, except for the Na-Nach stuff and the fires they put on the covers, which understandably turn people off. R. Yisroel Odesser was the Breslover Chosid who was fooled into believing he received a letter written posthumously by Rav Nachman telling him about the Na-Nach chant. The whole thing was a practical joke that went bad. But the Na-Nachers believe in Rav Nachman's real teachings as well, and that is why they are printing the Seforim that you were given. 

 

It's like, for example, if the Meshichistim would print Tanyas and write "Yechi" on the cover. It's a Bizayon for the Sefer, but it's still a Tanya.