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Cognitive Dissonance- Guys' Opinions Please


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#1 Soulrebel

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Posted 16 December 2012 - 08:30 PM

This is something I encounter a lot in my pretty typical life of a frum girl. The guy in this scenario is usually about age 20-21, and its not the same guy over and over again, but different guys.

 

Guy: Soulrebel- do you have any girls you can set me up with?

Soulrebel: (sighs) (sarcastic tone here) Obviously. I am a master shadchan with LOADS of my friends just dying to set them up-

Guy: That's fabulous!

Soulrebel: -in about a year and a half

Guy: So you know of at least one girl who is theoretically willing to date me in the future but not now.

Soulrebel: Essentially, YES

Guy: I get that most of your friends are in Israel...but what about the ones that aren't?

Soulrebel: (trying to be patient) Guy, my friends aren't into this whole idea of dating for fun

Guy: But it's not for fun! I want to be serious with this girl who only hypothetically exists! I want to take her on dates, change my facebook relationship status, have her meet my friends and family- all that stuff! I'll even be shomer if she wants!

Soulrebel: That doesn't constitute a Serious Relationship to my friends. To my friends, "serious" means that if a guy likes them, they go out on dates, talk about how they envision their lives, talk about their philosophies on life, talk about their philosophies on Judaism, and stuff like that. The rest is just icing on the cake to them. If you can't do that, it's not happening because it's not serious.

Guy: I don't do stuff like that and I doubt I ever will. If I wasn't taking her seriously, why would I do all that stuff I just said?

Soulrebel: So say that some girl does say yes. You change your facebook, take her on dates, she meets your special people- everything you just said. It's going pretty well. Then, BOOM! You graduate, you get a job and start making real money, you have a birthday and realize you're getting old. SOMETHING happens. YOUR FUTURE HAS ARRIVED. All of a sudden, you have to re-evaluate your relationship with this girl and figure out if this relationship can carry forth into the future: Do you want this girl to be the mother of your children? Is she the first one you want there for your bad moments, for your weak moments, in sickness and in health? Is this love going to still be there when you're both old and less attractive? There are LOADS of people you can be perfectly compatible with if you're going on dates, changing your facebook and having them chill with your friends and family and doing EVERYTHING but significantly altering your life.

Guy: But how am I supposed to KNOW if she's that special girl if I don't see her in many scenarios over a long period of time?

Soulrebel: (This is where I don't know what to say and start stuttering about maturity and not knowing what I'm talking about.)

 

 

Bottom line, I feel like Guy is using faulty logic here, but I can never make Guy understand that something here is contradicting itself. Maybe I'm bad at convincing Guy of this because I'm a girl, or maybe I'm wrong.

 

So Frumteens- what do you think?

 



#2 taon

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 03:53 PM

First of all, thats not the intention he would be having. Second, if you have to know how someone is during every point of their life, it's a problem. There will be sides of them you have a problem with. The way they act on dates wont be the same way they act during a normal situation, but you can probably tell if it's how they want to be during those situations. Rav Shapiro once posted about how girls shouldn't expect to marry Rav Chaim Shmulevitz, but someone who has the potential, and desire, to become like that (on their own level). Marriage isn't about marrying that perfect person, it's about working together to make each other into those perfect people. You don't need to know every character flaw they have. Just a good sense of who they are, and who they wish to be. that can be gained through a normal dating experience.



#3 taon

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Posted 30 December 2012 - 03:57 PM

ALso, if you can get a hold of books on dating, there are probably some good arguments there.



#4 Soulrebel

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Posted 09 January 2013 - 04:28 PM

They want someone they can talk to, though. I'll mention "Why not this girl or that girl? You said you liked her a month ago", and then I'll get something like "She doesn't want kids, I can't live with that," or "That was before I spoke to her."

 

Also, I have to disagree. I went out with someone who was absolutely charming on dates, but  when we started actually doing "real life" type stuff together (shopping, boring events, other stuff) he turned out to be someone completely different...in a bad way. In my experience, a person can be *WONDERFUL* for a few hours at a time, in a setting completely removed from reality. So I understand a need to study with them for tests, see them with their friends and family, see them anywhere that's not a coffeehouse on cloud 9. Real life is more about buying groceries and horsetrading. Everyone has that ideal of wanting to be Rav Chaim Shmulevitz, but it's kind of like hearing a homeless person saying they want to be CEO versus hearing someone working at a company saying they want to be CEO- some people have a better chance of getting there than others.

 

Do you know of good dating books for finding these arguments?



#5 taon

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 03:15 PM

I guess that is why we speak to those people who know him/her, to get a good feel. Even if you date a long time, people still blind themselves, becoming nonobjective. Nonjews also find themselves married to someone different than they were dating. And there are too many risks involved, and too much emotional attachment if it doesnt work out.

 

I dont know of any dating books, i didnt see any in the local shuls, but try this and this



#6 taon

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Posted 23 April 2013 - 06:11 PM

Its late, but i recently saw the book The Magic Touch by Gila Madison, it may have what you are looking for



#7 Soulrebel

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 01:38 PM

Thanks for the answer, but the Magic Touch is about people who are NOT willing to be shomer, which these guys are willing to be. These guys are all "whatever the girl wants" in the shomer department.



#8 taon

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Posted 29 April 2013 - 04:23 PM

It had something about this issue though, i dont remember what, i was just glancing through, but it was towards the end.