5 replies to this topic

[boruchsiper]

I was recently discussing r"t 72 with a choshive kollel yungerman ( or at least he seems so to me).

We were particularly talking about the different opinions of what 72 means... 72 literally all over the globe, or 72 in E"Y only - and the rest of the world has to adjust that time according to 16.2 degrees of the sun bellow horizon.

 

This yungerman suggested that since r"t always lived in France, He didn't realize how fast it gets dark in E"Y. Would he had knows this, he wouldn't pasken 72.

 

It seems to me that such rationale goes k'neged the derech of the mesorah.

 

Rabbi Shapiro , am I correct, if yes - have I omitted anything?

Am I wrong, if yes -  then why?

Thank you?

[Rabbi Shapiro]

The yungerman has no idea what he's saying.

 

The shiur of 72 minutes is stated in the Gemora - Rabbeinu Tam did not invent it. Chazal did not live in France.

 

Plus, the Shulchan Aruch happens to pasken like Rabbeinu Tam. And the Bais Yosef happened to live in Eretz Yisroel.

 

So instead of "if Rabbeinu Tam would know...he would never have said," the reality is if the yunergman would have known a bit about the topic he is discussing, he never would have said what he said.

 

And talking without knowing anything about the subject matter is definitely k'neged the derech of the Mesorah.

[achasshoalti]

And talking without knowing anything about the subject matter is definitely k'neged the derech of the Mesorah.

 

[AYidOnTheWayUp]

"And talking without knowing anything about the subject matter is definitely k'neged the derech of the Mesorah."

That's a quotable quote!

[Menorah]

Is it true that some Chasidishe or perhaps other kehilos hold that Shabbos starts later than the common shkia?

[Rabbi Shapiro]

Yes. But it's not "Chasidim." Rabbienu Tam, the Shulchan Aruch, and probably the majority of Rishonim hold like that.

 

In Europe there were more Kehillos - and they were not all Chasidim - who followed this in actual practice. In America, for various reasons, as a general rule, even those who hold L'Halachah like Rabbeinu Tam will not allow doing Melachah after the Shekiyah. Even in Europe that was true regarding many Kehillos that followed Rabbeinu Tam in other areas.