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Modern Orthodoxy


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#1 Role Model Wannabe

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 07:27 PM

I was just wondering what Modern Orthodoxy is exactly, and if it's the "wrong" way to live a Jewish lifestyle.

Like, is Torah uMadda wrong? I mean, as long as there's a ton of Torah with the Madda and the person completely understands that Madda is just the "natural concept" for the inconvceivable understanding. Is it possible for somebody to go in thinking the way I just stated and then reverse?

I always hear that there are 70 Panim LaTorah, does that play anything here?

Also, I recently read somewhere that the MO way of thinking and reasoning for not having too many chumros is because it's the easy way out. Since someone doessn't know the exact parameters of Halacha, they just keep everything, and MOers say it's the wrong approach.

I don't know, I hear both sides, but I don't know if it's correct that I even hear it! There are so many people against MO that sort of made me look down on it, but now I'm beginning not to.

So even if the answer is there's nothing wrong with it, or something like that, is it Halachically ok to be MO?

Does Hashem want us to be Yeshivish, MO, "regular" O.....?

 



#2 taon

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 10:49 PM

See here: Modern Orthodoxy



#3 Role Model Wannabe

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Posted 28 January 2013 - 11:42 PM

Wow! 22 pages! Thanks..... :)



#4 taon

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Posted 29 January 2013 - 03:17 PM

If you want just Rav Shapiro's posts, go to http://frumteendex.b...odern Orthodoxy



#5 Soulrebel

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Posted 30 April 2013 - 06:19 PM

Here's my question: the phrase "modern orthodox" is made up of the words "modern" and "orthodox".

"Orthodox" seems to be defined as keeping shabbos, kosher, and taharas Hamishpacha.

"Modern" doesn't seem to mean the same thing to the same person twice, forget about "modern" meaning the same thing to 2 people. Since "modern orthodox" people don't seem to have a central institution the way Chasidim do (they have their own rebbe and huge central beis medrash-es for each Chasidus), we can't find define them by any one institution. There is, as far as I know, no sefer everyone calling themselves "modern orthodox" unites under, nor is there any rabbi that people agree is "the leader of modern orthodoxy". In my lifetime, no 2 people calling themselves "modern orthodox" have had enough common ideology that an outsider would say "These people are in the same 'club'."       

 

Taking all of this into consideration, and assuming I'm right, I have a different way of judging things: What mitzvos do you actually keep? Do you violate commandments knowingly? Do you bristle when someone gently and privately shows you real proof that what you are doing is wrong? Do you care enough to change your behavior when you know you are wrong?

 

I'm not saying that you don't have the odd bird who wears halter tops and short shorts and is actually well-educated. I'm just saying that usually you don't find people who are very stringent on shabbos, kashrus and taharas hamishpacha who break every other commandment out there.

 

You really can't judge a person soley based on what they wear, especially before they are old enough to live independently of their parents. Judging people by what they wear is saying that identity is what you ARE, not what you DO, and what you DO is actually what ends up making you who you are. Most people under the age of 24, if unmarried, live at home with their parents, which means that their parents control what they purchase. Therefore what a person wears means almost nothing if the person you're judging is under 24.

 

Since these labels seem to mean next to nothing, can't we start judging each other on what we actually DO?



#6 Rabbi Shapiro

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Posted 09 May 2013 - 08:22 PM

"Orthodox" is just a word and you can give it any parameters you want. But one thing is certain - "Shabbos, Kashrus and Taharas HaMishpacha" are not it. These 3 Mitzvos do not comprise any particularly unique set. Shabbos obviously is unique in that someone who publicly violates it is considered outside of Klall Yisroel regarding many things, but Kashrus and Taharas HaMishpacha do not, in and of themselves, convey any particular status on their practitioner.

 

In other words, if someone does not keep Taharas HaMishpacha, he is a sinner; but no more or less part of Klall Yisroel than someone who eats Chometz on Pesach for example.

 

If there is any minimum threshold for observance that causes you to be considered part of Klall Yisroel, it is the 13 Ikarim. It is Emunah. If you have Emunah then you are considered Jewish in all respects. You may be a Rasha, but you have a share in Olam Habah and you are considered part of Klall Yisroel.

 

If on the other hand, someone does not believe in the 13 Ikarim, then he is not considered part of Klall Yisroel. He retains the obligations of a Jew but incurs no benefits thereof. There is no Mitzvah to love him; there is no Mitzvah to return his lost objects; he gets no share in Olam Habah. More: Even if he does a Mitzvah he does not get credit for it, because he does not even believe in Mitzvos! if he makes a Bracha, you should not answer Amen, because it is not a Bracha. See here for more details.

 

And yes, what a person does, contributes to what he is, but -- what a person values contributes even more. A person is judged more by what he values than what he does. As the Posuk says:  מַצְרֵף לַכֶּסֶף וְכוּר לַזָּהָב וְאִישׁ לְפִי מַהֲלָלוֹ. "A person is judged according to what he praises."

 

So if you have two boys in Yeshiva, boy A learns more than boy B, but he is impressed and awed by someone with money or some famous movie star or ball player, whereas boy B learns less but is more impressed and awed by a Talmid Chacham or a Tzadik - then boy B is a bigger Ben Torah than boy A. 

 

One more thing: If a person willingly violates the Torah, he is a sinner; but if  a person willingly disagrees with the Torah, then he is a heretic. So if a person says "I know that mixed swimming is wrong, but I give in to my Taavah and I do it anyway, and I hope that one day I will become stronger and stop," that person is a willful sinner. But if he says "I know the Halacha says its prohibited but I don't think that mixed swimming is a big deal," then such a person is disagreeing with the Torah, which makes him much, much worse than the first guy.

 

It's like if someone is caught speeding. if he tells the judge "I was speeding. I had no excuse" the judge will find him guilty. But if he says "I don;t agree that speeding is wrong," the judge will hopefully throw the book at him. 

 

The first guy is a law-breaker; the second guy is a revolutionary. Big difference.



#7 FS613

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Posted 30 July 2013 - 09:40 PM

L'Chvod Rabbi Shapiro, Shlita:

 

If someone was raised in a Modern Orthodox family, and he thinks that mixed swimming / mixed dancing / women wearing sleeveless, pants, or shorts /
married women not covering hair, etc. is not a big deal, because he was raised to think that doing these things is simply being "Modern,"

and he doesn't realize the seriousness of the sin of going against Halacha,
 

but afterward he learns that doing these things because someone is "Modern" is simply violating Halacha and going against the Torah;

 

then if he changes his attitude to the correct attitude towards Halacha and the Torah,

 

can he do Tishuva for his past belief?

 

Thank you.



#8 Rabbi Shapiro

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Posted 04 August 2013 - 03:02 PM

L'Chvod Rabbi Shapiro, Shlita:

 

If someone was raised in a Modern Orthodox family, and he thinks that mixed swimming / mixed dancing / women wearing sleeveless, pants, or shorts /
married women not covering hair, etc. is not a big deal, because he was raised to think that doing these things is simply being "Modern,"

and he doesn't realize the seriousness of the sin of going against Halacha,
 

but afterward he learns that doing these things because someone is "Modern" is simply violating Halacha and going against the Torah;

 

then if he changes his attitude to the correct attitude towards Halacha and the Torah,

 

can he do Tishuva for his past belief?

 

Thank you.

Yes.